Will you still recommend CompTIA?

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by Sparky, Jan 14, 2010.

  1. Asterix

    Asterix Megabyte Poster

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    ......Yet! is what im afraid of!
    I completed the A+ at the beginning of last year, when do i need to recertify :eek:
     
  2. Rob1234

    Rob1234 Megabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    After 3 years not sure exact dates but you could just keep it on your CV and not renew thats what I will be doing and its not like once the cert expires all the knowledge falls out of your head it will always be there :)
     
    Certifications: A few.
  3. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Haze, I can understand your plight. However, I would study the A+ cert and Network+ cert till I can carry out the task in a real life scenario but would not sit for the exams.

    No one is belittling the Comptia certs, but here for one in the UK it's not recognised let a lone heard of or even spoken about by recruiters. This is the reason a lot of people favour and have mentioned Microsoft and Cisco certs.

    To be honest the Comptia certs are over priced when compared to recognised and asked after type of certs. If I were in your shoes I would go ahead for the MCDST certs as this would get you interviews and consequently land you a job in helpdesk or 1st line desktop support.

    Best wishes and hope you make the right choice:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
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  4. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

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    It should be noted that everything I say on this or any forum are my own viewpoints and do not necessarily reflect those of Boson.

    The question posed was whether we would continue to recommend CompTIA certification based on the fact that they've added the new recertification clause into the mix. And, regardless of what I feel about it (I actually don't think it's a bad idea), the A+ and Net+ are currently (and will likely remain) the most widely recognized entry-level certifications.

    So, if someone were to ask me what they should do to help them get an entry-level job in IT, I will still recommend that they pursue A+ and Net+ certification, because that's what many employers look for. In fact, there were some jobs when I was first getting into IT that would not hire entry-level technicians that were not A+ certified. I would be doing the person asking for help a disservice if I told them not to go after A+ or Net+ certifications out of bitterness or spite because they now require someone to get recertified after 3 years.

    I agree that after 3 years, many people will not need to recertify because they've moved on in their career. If so, then why worry about whether you need to recertify and why get upset that CompTIA is imposing this rule? If you're not doing entry-level tech work after three years, does having a legacy A+ on your resume help anything?
     
  5. j1mgg

    j1mgg Kilobyte Poster

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    With regards to them not being recognised in the UK, where i have Education on my CV, i have

    EDUCATION:

    Comptia A+ Operating System Technologies (passed Jun 07)
    This exam shows that I can understand the fundamentals of Windows NT, 9x, Me, 2000, XP and I am confident installing, configuring and troubleshooting these operating systems.

    Comptia A+ Core Hardware (passed Jun 07)
    This exam shows that I am able to install and upgrade PC components as well as troubleshoot and take preventive maintenance. I am also able to setup and problem solve basic networks.

    Comptia Network+ (currently studying)

    Just so that someone looking at my CV know exactly what they are.

    I do still think theyb are good certs but i wont be renewing individually, but may sit another cert, security+ for example that recertifies all of them.
     
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  6. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I already had a degree, a HND and 7+ years of experience before I took any certifications including CompTia ones. I take certifications to improve my employment marketability with employers / recruiters that are pro certs. The lifetime aspect was absolutely a core reason I took the exam. I have never knowingly taken any qualification that requires re-cert or has a short expiry. My driving licence possibly being the only one which has what 60 years ?

    The knowledge and lab experience is the important thing not the cert, as I have previously mentioned there are many ways to get this. There are also many qualifications to show this in the UK, NVQ, BTEC, OCR iPRo, various Diplomas and Certificates, HND/HNC, Foundation Degree. None of these expire.

    In the UK the A+ is absolutely not the only qualification on entry level IT, it is just the most well know certification on PC hardware troubeshooting.

    I do not think peoples value generally decreases as fast as cert vendors would have you believe, I also do not believe in bureaucracy for its own sake.

    I do not think you would do them a disservice by telling them not to take the A+ exam, you would be saving them valuable time and money. Learn the sylabus, don't take the exam. Most Employers in the UK have not heard of the A+ so how could they look for it ? I have never seen a job mandate an A+.

    I am upset because I have been mislead and had the terms I signed up for changed.
    Is that not reasonable ?

    If I pay good money to take an exam on a lifetime basis, and I spend more time and money studying, why should anyone be able to take that away ? Having the cert like any exam proves I studied and learnt a block of material, thats why I want it, the same as I want my GCSE's, A-levels, HND, degree, if I choose to leave them off my CV as I think they are not relevant, thats my choice, it should not be CompTia's !
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  7. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I'd also like to point out that I took the N+ rather than the CCENT because it did not require recert.

    I also took the Security+ rather than the CEH or CISSP because it did not require recert or PD vetting.

    The CISSP book is still on the shelf gathering dust unused.

    I absolutley would not have taken these certs knowing what I now know, CompTia owe me £380+ if they retire these certs. CompTia, £380 is a lot to pay for what will be two worthless pieces of paper, and thats not even including my time for going to the exam centre and test prepping, and my billable rate is quite high.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2010
  8. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Yup, that’s how I feel about the whole situation. I spent X amount of cash on CompTIA certs and at the time they did not expire and they were for life.

    Now I’m told the cert will expire, is this fair? No. :rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) MS-900 AZ-900 Security+ Network+ A+
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  9. dales

    dales Terabyte Poster

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    Sorry BosonJosh but here in blighty that simply is NOT true, no recruiter knows what any CompTIA is, all they look out for are the magic MS and Cisco ones. Have a look around at a few UK job sites.

    Right now on theitjobboard.co.uk if you search for comptia or a+ for the whole of the UK you get 9-10 hits depending on what term you use. Thats the whole of the UK and a rough tot up of the amount of jobs on that site is around 5-6 thousand.


    Sounds like its different in the USA mind you. Still my gripe is that I took the A+ years ago under the understanding that it was a lifetime cert, whether it appears on my cv or not is of no interest I should always be a+ certified without any further exams.
     
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  10. Bluerinse
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    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    I'm not sure if i will recommend them again or not. I'm having a tough time reconciling the fact that i have personally recommended the CompTIA certs on the basis that they did not expire. Now the advice that i have given for years to people on this forum has been rendered inaccurate.

    It worries me that people trawling through older posts will be misled and confused.

    I still think the A+ material and the Net+ material is worth studying, as it's the knowledge gleaned which is of fundamental importance. The cert itself has little value in the UK and other parts of the world, it is just a piece of paper.
     
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  11. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

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    I can only give you my experience here in the US, but, based on my experience, CompTIA certifications are recognized as the best entry-level IT certs. For that reason, I'm still going to recommend them. (FWIW, I would say that even if Boson didn't have A+ products.)

    If the cert has little value in the UK, why would you recommend someone take it at all, regardless of how long the certification lasts?
     
  12. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Well entry level people have little or no experience, they need to prove some knowledge and ability somehow. A qualification or certification is one way to do that.

    The advantage of a certification over most other qualifications is that it can be obtained at your own pace, at a location of your chosing via self study.

    Self study alone leaves a candidate with little proof of study, but hopefully they can still impress at an interview, if they can get one. A person with no experience generaly needs all the CV fodder they can get, even an A+ that an employer does not know about sounds better than no A+.

    Undirected self study may be difficult for those with little experience, the A+ provides an excellent sylabus/curriculum for study for those wanting to start out. That I believe is why most UK posters reccomend it.

    I prefer traditional qualifications if one is going to go to a school or college but that creates many dependancies on location, time, schedule, people etc.

    As BM often says, once you've learn't the topic, you often might as well certify to try to look better than the competition. I would add to this there is a value judgement to make which is if the certification exam process justifies the extra time and cost to certify over just learning the subject. A long lived qualification has more value as its a one time cost for life, you can see the time amortising the cost, like with a degree. I would now say that the CompTia certs fail the value judgement call for many people.

    Regardless of market demand, if you've paid for a set deal then that deal should be upheld.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  13. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

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    I don't disagree that people who have previously obtained the A+ under the "lifetime certification" policy should be able to retain their certification for their lifetime. While I won't hold my breath, I think that would be the appropriate thing for them to do. That aside, it sounds like the A+ does hold at least some value in the UK (based on your statement to that fact above), so why would you not recommend it to someone simply because you're upset about their policy change?

    The point I'm trying to make is that, policy change aside, the A+ certification is still the best starting point for someone who's looking to break into IT. For that reason, I'm going to continue recommending it to anyone who asks me what the best entry-level certification is. If you don't feel comfortable recommending CompTIA certifications to somebody either out of principal or out of spite, then don't.
     
  14. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    You can put it down to malice or spite if you like, I was never a major proponent of CompTia even before the announcement.

    For the record I don't hold the A+ but have considered taking it in the past.

    I took the Security+ to help get my MCSA. I also wanted to prove to employers that I'm an all rounder so decided to do the Network+ and Server+ also, as many employers do not expect all developers to be well rounded. The Linux+ and Project+ I took in beta so the cost was low and I thought what the heck, frequenting CertForums tends to create a 'cert collecting' mentality.

    If you look at my posts I most frequently reccomend college and academic qualifications and not certifications.

    You have 'framed the question', by putting in certification, entry level, etc in order to produce the answer you want, its a common technique in surveys when you want to rig them.

    If you just change the question to how can a person get an entry level IT job ? Then it quickly becomes apparent that there are a myriad of options, many involving no certification at all, some not involving qualifications at all.

    I rarely reccomended it before, when I did it was because of the sylabus which you are right in pointing out is unique in it's content among certifications (though not amoungst qualifications.). I've explained in my posts how I think the change effects the value judgement and how for many people will push the cert over the tipping point from desirable to non desirable.

    Some will simply take other qualifications, others maybe other certs like CCENT or MCDST, some may cert once on A+ and not recert. People with other quals and experience like myself who might have considered it for CV fodder will likely not bother at all.

    Remember CompTia brought this on themselves and they are still in a position to do something about it. Since the change is retroactive there was nothing I could do to avoid this situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  15. Haze

    Haze Nibble Poster

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    I really think this theory of the A+ not being as useful in the UK shoud be more amplified by Certforums and long-term users in general. A lot of UK people use this site and it feels like I wrongly believed the A+ was the best starting point for certifications here. All I'm seeing lately is 'nobody in the UK has heard of CompTIA' - again I feel glad I've only paid for a book (for which I have Certforums to thank as advice got me out of the TP nightmare) but I have lost time I could have put into the MCDST which was next on my list.

    I like the notion of learning the material but not taking the extortionate exams so I don't feel too aggrieved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
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  16. BosonMichael
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    Then what ARE the most widely recognized entry-level certifications there, if it's not those two? The MCDST isn't. Cisco doesn't have entry-level certs. The reason why the MCSE and CCNA are plastered on job adverts is because, frankly, the people posting them don't have the slightest idea what they're asking for.

    Even if few companies in the UK ask for them, the A+ and Network+ are STILL the way to go if you're an entry-level tech looking for an entry-level job.

    Hey, if you guys want to recommend something else, go right ahead. I'm gonna continue to recommend the A+ to start out, despite the fact that Boson's bread and butter is Cisco certifications, not CompTIA certifications.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
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  17. BosonMichael
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    Here's my take on the whole situation.

    1. It's CompTIA's certification program, so they can do with it as they please. Let's get that out of the way right off the bat.

    2. CompTIA has the right to require their certified techs to stay up-to-date in order to hold the certification designation. As such, they can require recertification.

    2a. For those of you who plan on putting "A+ (expired)" on your resume/CV, know that you're using the certification in violation of CompTIA's registered trademarks. If it's worth it to you to maintain the designation on your CV, recertify. If not, then don't.

    3. Nobody forces you to get certified or recertified. If it's worth it to your job search (or, in some rare cases, to your current employment), then do it. If not, then don't. It's as simple as that.

    4. CompTIA had an agreement with people who certified previously that their certifications would be LIFETIME certifications. As such, they ought to allow anyone who certified prior to the announcement to remain certified for life. If they don't want to do that because of what I mentioned in point #2, then they can do what Microsoft did: allow MCSEs to be MCSEs for life and start a new certification program with the MCTS and MCITP.

    5. There ARE actually instances where having the A+, Network+, and/or Security+ could help a senior-level tech. Consider a case where PersonA and PersonB are similarly qualified and have the same certifications, except PersonB also has the A+, Network+, and Security+. All else being equal, which one is MORE likely to be able to mentor the junior-level techs on staff and which one is MORE likely to be a server-room rat? Again, if you feel that it doesn't give you an advantage, see point #3.

    I'll probably get recertified before the 12/2011 deadline, but that's not a fair assessment considering the nature of my job. Would I get recertified if I didn't work in the certification training industry? If my employer paid for it, as my previous employers paid for all the rest of my certifications, then yes. If I had to foot the bill on my own... that'd be a hard call. Not sure it's worth $250ish at this stage of my career. It might... but that's hard to know for certain. Every employer is different and wants to see different things from prospective employees.
     
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  18. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    ...... Ccent?
     
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  19. BosonMichael
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    CCENT isn't an entry-level cert any more than calculus is an entry-level math course. And I daresay you won't find employers asking for the CCENT, either.
     
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  20. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    My mistake, apologies
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
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