Why open source is growing by leaps and bounds

ffreeloader · May 4, 2008

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Phoenix said: ↑

High wages are not the be all and end all to a decent standard of living, in fact if costs of commodity items are high they play to the class system

the reason union professionals were so well paid was because the clout the unions had kept the balance of power between employee and employer pretty level, the fact the US is worlds behind the rest of the western world in labour laws that protect employees and not just employers is nothing to do with globalization and may well of helped those employees worse off

that said, globalization is helping vast numbers of skilled workers play the exact same game that big corporates have been doing, the internet and the personal computer have meant that individuals can play the globalization field not just big corporates with endless resources, small business are now forming from diverse skill sets across national and continental boundaries, benefiting from multi time zone presence to play to a world market, not just a national one

Union workers who watched there salaries steadily climb massively over the rate of inflation due to union bully tactics for years and years didn't stand a chance with the advent of globalization, correct, but skilled workers can and have adapted, and the citizens of the US could of shouted high and low for decent labour laws to protect them where needed
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Of course high wages aren't the be-all and end-all of a high standard of living. But, you take away the high paying jobs, do not have a corresponding reduction in the costs of living, and the inevitable result is high debt loads, overall reduction in real wealth, and a huge trade imbalance in which far more money flows out of your country than into it. That's exactly what has happened here in the US in the last 40 years or so. That is not an improvement in the standard of living for the average citizen. That's a reduction in the standard of living for the majority in our country, with a few at the top reaping the profits.

I don't have a problem with a reduction in poverty levels in third world countries. Not at all. But, once again we are not seeing the average citizen in those countries being any better off. All we are seeing is a few at the top making obscene amounts of money. That's all globalization has really done. It's taken the profits out of the hands of the workers who actually produce the products and put it into the hands of fewer and fewer people.

ffreeloader · May 4, 2008

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Crito said: ↑

I'd say it's a result of not enforcing anti-trust law, which would have kept companies small and competitive. Huge multinational corps now run our governments and they're the ones who really benefit from "free" trade.
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Absolutely. I'm a capitalist at heart, but I am not someone in favor of mega-corporations and obscene profit margins where the little guy is on the short end of the stick at all times.

Bluerinse · May 4, 2008

ffreeloader said: ↑

That may well be true for the UK, but here in the US things have happened differently. Most durable goods--things meant to last more than 3 years--are either manufactured completely overseas, or have the majority of the components manufactured overseas and then only the assembly is done here.

The steel industry is basically a shell of what it used to be. Most steel is now imported. The steel industry paid very well, even better than the automobile manufacturing jobs.

Almost the entire textile industry has moved all their manufacturing off shore too. Those jobs again were good paying jobs. About the only clothing and textile manufacturer left in the US is Pendleton Woolen Mills, and their goods are expensive. Good quality but expensive.

All manufacturing of major appliances is now done overseas. Once again, these were good paying jobs.

The timber products industry has collapsed too. People who worked in it made very good money. My old man used to make $200 a day back in the '60's falling timber. That's when gas cost 20 cents a gallon, a new car cost around $1000, and the average home price was maybe $35,000. He was really good at what he did, but his earnings were not out of line for that industry. The average wage now for doing the same job he did then is actually less, while the prices of all goods are exponentially higher.

There are just very few manufacturing jobs left in the US. Fifty years ago they were the backbone of the economy. That meant steady work, good benefits, jobs for life if that's what you wanted, and good pay. That entire section of the economy here is basically gone along with it's wage scale. It's been replaced with service jobs that historically pay far less.

After watching 40 years of economic change in the country nobody can tell me the average Joe on the street is better off today than the average Joe was 40 years ago. It just isn't true.
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Freddy the same has happened in England. When i was young, it was commonplace to see labels on goods saying "made in England", these were always high quality goods. Radios, TVs, Cars, Steel, textiles, you name it, it was manufactured in *England* or someplace else in the UK. You even saw little Union Jack flags on consumer goods to promote a sense of pride in our own goods. Nowadays the UK has evolved into a service only sector and very little manufacturing of anything happens there now.

Australia is some ways behind the UK and the US, though unfortunately it is following in the same direction.

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