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Who do I choose??

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Mr Machfisto, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    I have been keeping an eye on this forum to get an idea on who to choose for my MCSE, afer a couple of weeks I have plucked up the courage to ask a few questions and make some points.

    I have had Computeach, NITLC, IT SKills, Schiedigger around to give me some advice and found this site that is pointing me in alsorts of directions.

    I have aslo looked on a forum for Computeach on Yahoo sites and funnily enough KES123 is on there as well.

    I have noticed there is alot of support for NITLC, but not much for the others, KES123 slags off everyone but IT Skills so I wounder if he/she has an alteritive motive on that score, and also he/she says exacltly the same on the Computeach Yahoo website.

    I had IT Skills come around and quote exactly the same quote as KES123, why learn to do 2003 when Longhorn is just around the corner, I have to admit, why train for 2000 when the exams will be retiring soon?

    Computeach and IT Skills both use simulation software which will not give me the practical experience I need, so it is a toss up at the moment between Scheidigger and NITLC or maybe others I have still to look into. I don't think I can do it on my own and will need the support.

    Can any of you guys help me out??
     
  2. Kes123

    Kes123 Banned

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    Hi there, i have not actually heard of ITSkills and yes i have posted on the computeach forum, and that is because I have also had lots of different training organisations round to see what they had to offer. they all spent so much time calling each other that I thought it was time to warn people on the type of things that they should ask.

    It seems to me by the way that you have answered this post and the way that you have brought into the equasion a company that has not been mentioned by me that it is you that is probably linked to a training organisation.

    My advice has always been do it yourself or find a college
     
  3. NightWalker

    NightWalker Gigabyte Poster

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    Hi Mr Machfisto. Not so long ago I was in the same position as you are now. You are on the right track, you have met the reps and are doing your research to ensure your investment is a wise one. Distance learning is the option you have been exploring, but Kes123 is right that you could self study or go to your local college. I opted for a distance learning course, I need to work full time to support myself, so college was out of the question. Self study and distance learning both require a good amount of personal motivation. I did wonder if I would be able to find the get up and go to get on with my course, but because I am really interested in the subject and enjoy messing around with computers I have found that I am really enjoying it and motivation is no problem. In your situation I would say this, think about what you get for your money from each training provider. Is it the 2000 or 2003 course. What kind of reputation has each provider got, your research will be building a picture in your mind of who you feel is going to provide the sort of course you want. Most importantly, do what you think is going to be right for you.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, MCP, MCSA:M 2003, ITIL v3 Foundation
  4. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    Kes maybe you need to find a different approach to how you help people? What you are trying to do is amendable but how your doing it appears to be leaving a bad taste in everyone mouth even on other sites. Your flaming everything constantly put everyone on the defense. How is that helpful to anyone? Maybe you should try a gentler approach with facts to back up your accusations. We all want to help; it is one of the top reasons for belonging to a site like this. However, you know your way is not working by the responses you get from others. So why don’t you choose a different path to walk so we can all be friends working together to help newbie’s get the most out of their training weather though self study or training?
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  5. NightWalker

    NightWalker Gigabyte Poster

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    Well said Mitzs. I agree completely.
    Now if only Kes123 will take this on board, maybe we can get back to the business at hand, helping people out, and enjoying CF :)
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, MCP, MCSA:M 2003, ITIL v3 Foundation
  6. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I've been studying with IT Skills to do an MCSD.
    I can't tell you why I picked them exactly, except that their ad caught my attention while I was out of work.
    I had 'course advisors' round from the main players, and they all said pretty much the same thing. Everywhere I looked I just found horror stories, everybody seems to be more interested in slagging people off but I suppose that's life.
    So it was a leap of faith really and not one I've regretted.
    One thing to try is to ask to speak to an existing or ex-student and see what they say.


    Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  7. Aardvark

    Aardvark Bit Poster

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    JonnyMX - you say you were out of work so did you study for your MCAD "full time" (say 30hours/week)? If so, how did you find it and how long did it take? I'm interested because I'm about to sign up for MCAD and study full-time.
     
  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I tried to do it full time.
    I pretty much did 9-5 most days. I was using the course material supplied by my training provider and I supplemented it myself with a few books in areas that I was interested in. I guess the first two modules (305 and 306) took me about 2 months each (give or take). You know what it's like, you check your email and do all the other things you can't resist while on the internet...
    306 covers very similar material to 305 so you repeat a lot of material. I'm ashamed to say I spent about 6 months on 310. Mainly because I started a new job and my priorities changed, but also because XML was completely new to me.

    Why not do an MCSD? Most course providers have a wonky price stucture which means that doing 5 MCPS works out better value than just 3 (especially if you choose to upgrade later).
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  9. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Having said that, find out if your training provider offers a choice of MCPs for the MCAD. Technically you have to do either 305 or 306, then 310. If you choose both 305 and 306, that gives you the MCAD. If you do either one, you can then do something like the 229 instead. Given that both 305 and 6 are both heavy into ADO.NET, you might want to specialise in SQL. Everything seems to be SQL nowadays...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  10. Aardvark

    Aardvark Bit Poster

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    Thanks JonnyMX, useful info. I'm going to see how it goes, and maybe do the MCSD afterwards. Because of this I will do the exams as suggested by NITLC, and leave the SQL one until then. I do quite fancy moving into databases at some point, I think!
     
  11. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I have a quick question for you folks who all seem to be taking up the programming route
    do you have any programming experiance prior to these courses? or does the MCSD/AD actually teach u programming as well as content for the exams?
    im interested as I have no programming experiance but it would be valuable for me to learn, and these courses may be a quicker boost to my knowledge than a drawn out university degree

    sorry for going OT a bit
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  12. Aardvark

    Aardvark Bit Poster

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    I have some understanding of the logical side of programming having grown up with BBC Basic, and dabbled in VB, and so it seemed the sensible route to go for me personally. I have little experience of the visual side of things, and how MS products and the web interact. I think/hope the course teaches me how to program properly, although I doubt it goes into the detail a degree would go, with different algorithms etc. All .Net languages are object oriented and this is covered in the course, according to the course outline anyway. I'll let you know when I get there!
     
  13. Stu_C

    Stu_C Byte Poster

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    I currently doing C# with computeach but i have programing knowledge from my spectrum,c64,amiga days.
    But theres plenty of people on my course that have had no knowledge of the subject and having no problems at all. I find that with having experience that its harder to get out of old habits and learn to do things properly. :oops:
    The CT course material is pretty good and starts right at the basics, and slowly push's you farwards towards the harder aspects. For my MCAD i need the 70-316(windows applications),315(Web Applications),320(XML).

    At the moment im still on stage 3 which is console programming and basically making sure you know the basics.

    If you fancy a taste of the C# route, my Stage 3 is near enough the same as 'C# for Dummies' so you can get a taste before forking out, and if you check out This thread, you can blag yourself a free beta version of MS Visual Studio.

    Stu_C
     
    Certifications: Bsc(Bronze Swimming Certificate)
    WIP: C# MCP, MCAD
  14. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    You don't need any programing experience to do the MCAD or MCSD if you do a decent course. I didn't have any when I started.
    You are expected to be familiar with visual studio, which can be a real problem as it is expensive. The free 2005 beta version that you can get from Microsoft is excellent, but the current MCSD exams are based on the 2003 version which isn't the same. You can get a 90 day trial version for free though.
    Training companies do not provide visual studio as part of their course. Some claim to, but if you read the small print there is always a catch (like they'll only provide it AFTER you certify).
    You won't be given SQL server either, but that's life.
    Be very wary of people who offer you 'everything you need' as it frankly isn't realistic for £4000.

    Someone may wish to contradict me here. Feel welcome.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  15. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    getting products is not a problem, i have an MSDN Universal subscription :)
    just wanted to know if it can be attempted by 'noobs' to programming, i did some pascal at school, and picked it up ok, but i've never done more than real simple stuff, I did a nitrox calculator in C# for my diving needs, it was rather simple, just took some hard coded math and then took input from the program and threw out some output, nothing too dynamic or clever :)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  16. Stu_C

    Stu_C Byte Poster

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    When i started my stage3 I was provided with Visual Studio .Net 2003 Professional under a student license. So after i finish my course i have to remove it from my system and return the discs.
    When i move onto stage 4 which requires me to learn ADO.net I am provided with a copy of MS Sql Server 2000, which again i think i have to return at the end of my course.

    The only software that CT dont provide me with is XP pro or Win2K which is needed for the Webdev stuff ( iiS ), but i already have my own copy of Xp Pro.

    Also my course includes full NetG course material on Visual studio, .Net, ASP.Net, ADO.Net, XML and so on.

    I dont think you should have a problem learning C#. when i first looked at some code i thought wtf? - but it becomes clearer and clearer every day.

    Stu_C
     
    Certifications: Bsc(Bronze Swimming Certificate)
    WIP: C# MCP, MCAD

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