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Which cert next?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by soundian, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    I've got my A+, N+ and will finish off the MCDST by christmas.
    Assuming I don't have my first IT job by then, I'm looking for something to keep the old grey matter ticking over that will also add value to an entry-level CV.

    If you were in my position what cert(s) would you do, and why?



    Oh, a couple of other things. I won't have access to Vista after the new year and I'm reluctant to buy a copy of an OS that's days are very much numbered. I use Linux where I volunteer but I don't think a Linux cert will add much value to my CV so I think I'll keep that as a hobby for now.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  2. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I enjoyed studying for Security+ :D
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  3. Johnd76

    Johnd76 Megabyte Poster

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    Have you thought about Windows 7? Im much the same as you, I want to keep getting certified to make the CV look better
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
    WIP: Not a thing
  4. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
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  5. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    I'd dismissed this one because it requires over a years experience etc.
    I reckon security is one of my weaker topics though. Maybe addressing that issue sooner rather than later is a good idea.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  6. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    I have, but I don't see the cert having much value until W7 takes a significant chunk of the commercial OS market. I'm going to revisit the W7 question in late spring/early summer I think. I'm planning on getting a copy of W7 soon so I'll be well acquainted with it by that time.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  7. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    The ITIL Fv3 is something I don't really know much about yet, apart form everyone round here seems to think it's a useful cert but hated doing it. I have seen it on a few job ads though so I'll stick it on my list of possibles.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job
  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    None. I'd devote every bit of time that I would have spent studying to getting that first IT job. Getting any further certifications will make you way overcertified for your experience level, potentially making it HARDER to get your first IT job, not easier.

    You can use an eval copy. And regardless of whether you believe Vista's days are "numbered" (which I don't think is an accurate assessment, considering XPs days aren't yet numbered), you will likely support some Vista computers at some point in your career. If those computers exist - and they do - companies will need someone to support them. Doesn't matter what you want to use or what you'd like to use... what matters is what the company uses.

    No, not much. Companies simply don't implement Linux on the desktop, and they're not gonna let you touch their Linux servers in an entry-level IT job.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It doesn't require it... but I'd advise following their recommendations.

    Keep in mind that the recommendation is not a year's experience in IT... it's TWO years of experience... and not just in IT, but working on networks with an emphasis on security: link
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    It looks like many companies may well skip Vista entirely, having Vista desktop support certs could therefore well be wasted time and outlay for most people.

    Having a more diverse skillset does work for some people, freddy used to mention his linux skills helped his career kick off where his MCSE did nothing. It's higher risk, but sometimes having a different skillset will work in your favour.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  11. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I wish I'd been encouraged to get into Linux/Unix at the start of my career 10 years ago. Mainframes run Suse these days and I was useless on it for a long time (still not great) :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Some will, yes. But some won't, and you don't want to limit potential job opportunities... certainly not for the cost of a $40 book and a $125 exam.

    Like I always say, certifications are all about making you look more attractive than your competition. If you have it, and they don't, you become more attractive to an employer.

    I'm not surprised - the MCSE isn't an entry-level cert.

    Sure, having a more diverse skillset is a good idea. My point is that Linux skills aren't typically sought at the entry level, because companies don't generally hire entry-level folks for Linux support jobs. Later in his career, that's a great cert to pursue.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  13. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    10 years ago, people with certs and no experience were hired more often for those sorts of jobs. Nowadays, that's not the case - companies don't do it anymore because they were burned too many times by hiring paper-certed individuals.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  14. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Yes, but as with everything theres a Risk/Reward calculation to make, otherwise why not get every qualification, why not get a masters or a doctorate ? Peoples time, money and effort is finite.

    Even at $165 there is still a cost, and then there is the time to read the book and do the labs, all time that could be spent on another subject.

    There will always be people with more knowledge, pieces of paper, and experience, the point is to manage your career and follow your interests.

    I'd rather see someone go learn OS fundamentals, compiler theory, parallel algorithms, anything from computer science rather than the feature set of a product that's largely DOA.

    I get your point, but there are all different jobs around, for all different companies, and one just might want Linux over Vista, and they might be doing R&D on a linux based device, it might not be a mission critical server.

    Sure we have to give the best general advice we can, but lets not forget thats what it is, general advice, there will be exceptions, and sticking with the pack when there are large numbers umeployed probably isn't the best strategy.

    I know people who started playing with linux/bsd, then with php etc, and now they are self employed and it is their fulltime job.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Don't go illogically extreme on me, mate; this is nowhere near a Masters or a Doctorate. It's one exam, and an easy, inexpensive one at that.

    DOA? Ah, you've drank the kool-aid too, I see.

    In any case, companies have implemented Vista, whether you care for it or not. It's nowhere near the predominant OS, but it's out there.

    Compiler theory? For an entry-level non-programmer tech? You're kidding, right? Perhaps you ought to stick to giving advice to programmers... that's where you shine, my friend.

    One might. But I guarantee you that more companies are looking for entry-level techs that know Vista than entry-level techs that know Linux. As you said, there's a risk/reward to consider.

    Nobody said anything about "sticking with the pack". "The pack" is generally uncertified (not knowing about certs at all) or overcertified (from training centers that tell them the MCSE and CCNA are the way to go starting out).

    Good for them! I know people who got overcertified and can't get a job. Your point?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    My point is even if it is low cost and low effort, if its low reward it might still be wasted effort. Another cert thats low cost and low effort but medium reward might be better, or possibly learning something out of interest and not certifying at all, now theres a thought !

    Nope, I'm not a biased proponent of any one company or technology.

    Plenty of things are out there, doesn't mean you need to read books about them or certify on them.

    Exactly why limit yourself, if you are going to study for interest in your own time ? Programmers can be self taught you know. Just because you might start in support doesn't mean you have to stay there.

    Yes rather depends how you frame the question. However many companies have strange shopping lists when recruiting and they don't necessarilly care about your definition of an entry level tech.

    My point is that common certifications alone probably won't make you stand out.

    My point is nothing stopping you from learning a subject like Linux in your spare time if it interests you, I would think LPIC1 is a perfectly fine certification if you are inclined to certify after.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  17. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I agree... that's why I recommended her certify no further at this point. He's got what he needs to make him attractive to employers for an entry-level job.

    Didn't say you were biased. I said that you buy into the whole "Vista is crap" misinformation.

    I agree.

    Not saying he can't study to be a programmer... but if he wanted to be a programmer, I'd have thought he'd have pursued that by now. :)

    It's not my definition, bro. An entry-level IT job is any IT job that doesn't require experience. I've yet to see an entry-level job ask for Linux knowledge, though I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

    And further (higher-level) certifications will likely make you stand out negatively.

    I agree with your suggestion to learn Linux, but disagree about certifying on it (unless he plans on keeping it off his resume). Just my opinion. We'll leave it at that.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  18. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    My laptop was a very expensive high end model when I bought it.

    I've used vista every day on my main laptop since it came out.

    It's my judgement, not based on any 'misinformation'. In fact I considered downgrading but MS couldn't even sort that out after 30 mins on the phone so I gave up and just put up with sluggish performance.

    Even MS had to give up on the line your taking and try and make an OS that has half decent performance with W7.

    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...t_vows_windows_7_will_fix_vista_mistakes.html

    Stop telling people 'its all in their head', and try not to be such an MS fanboy.

    Agreed but not all certs are higher level, just because Linux is not windows doesn't mean it's higher level. Many people do degrees that cover 'advanced' material. Your points are valid in relation to experience based high level certifications.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  19. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I disagree, but I respect your opinion on that.

    There's a website for that.

    That's simply marketing spin to try to make people believe that W7 is scads better than Vista in order to drive up sales of the new OS. And while W7 IS better, Vista really wasn't that bad. The problem initially was the change in drivers and access to the kernel... meh, you either already know this, or you likely don't care much about it.

    I'm far from a fanboi, bro. I've got tons of criticisms for the crew at Redmond.

    It's higher level because companies don't hire entry-level folks to administer Linux boxen. Thus, it's not useful at this point in his career. Are we just going round in circles here? :blink

    Fine, you think that Linux is entry-level. I disagree.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  20. soundian

    soundian Gigabyte Poster

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    Lots of food for thought there.
    Here's where I am at the moment.

    ITILv3Foundation: Seems like it would show I'm thinking about more than just the tech side of things. I might have to do something else alongside though, it seems most people lose the will to live (or at least, stay awake) studying this one.

    Vista: I forgot about eval versions. That makes this cert look more attractive. Unfortunately the upgrade does seem to over-certify me but I'm sure most recruiters would look at that as the sensible way to upgrade my MCDST to show vista knowledge as well.

    Linux: I think the LPIC1 wouldn't harm my CV, since it's more of a power user/1st line cert than an admin cert but, as already stated, it's got pretty poor value for money on an entry level CV.

    Security+: Yup, well above my level BUT I think I would benefit from the material. Since I think I'm weak in that area I might just get a book and read through it, rather than study for and take the cert.

    I feel I'm now at the stage where setting up a server to allow me to practice in a domain environment might be a very good idea. To that end I'm going to build a new rig that can handle a small lab and get the software i need.

    So, ITIL (maybe) Vista (very likely) and getting to grips with setting up a server etc should keep my busy over the long, dark winter nights.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+,MCDST,MCTS(680), MCP(270, 271, 272), ITILv3F, CCENT
    WIP: Knuckling down at my new job

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