What is a 'Training Provider' and how are they different from each other?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Arroryn, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    I agree:rocks - some people do jump on the band wagon and assumme that all TP's are bad.

    I have had bad experiences with 2 long distance learning TP's but had a good experience with classroom based TP's. But I am also aware that someone else (where I work) has had good experiences with the same long distance TP I used. So I guess it really depends on the individual, everyone is different!8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  2. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    yep but why pay someone money for self study? :blink:blink:blink

    I understand some people need to have a structured classroom lesson etc but I don't understand why some people do distance learning since in effect you are just self studying.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  3. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    The ideas of paying in installments and a credit agreement are quite seperate.

    One is where you take credit from a credit provider and the credit provider pays the full sum to the service provider, you are then liable to installments which usually include interest on the principal.

    Paying in installments is where you agree with the provider of the goods or services that you will pay as you recieve the goods or services and not upfront.

    In a large transaction this significantly reduces the risk to the buyer.

    What if you are importing 2 million containers of electronics from china or building a new office block ? Do you pay upfront in one big sum ? In business you would be very dumb indeed to do such a thing !

    You don't even have to look to business for examples, its quite common for people to pay for say a building extension in installments, where this is very much basic personal finance.

    The OU does not need or require a credit agreement to allow paying in installments :- https://msds.open.ac.uk/your-record/ousba/about.htm

    In fact many colleges offer these sorts of options, my degree was paid by term, three terms a year by a government grant. At no point did I hand over a vast sum of cash before the course even started, I could walk away at any point with minimal debts. This is very important because if you find the service is rubbish once you start recieving it you can vote with your feet ! Market economics still hold because you can use another provider !
     
  4. tbone152

    tbone152 Nibble Poster

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    With the TP I'm with I get the best of both worlds. I can also email tutors with problems I may be having on certain subjects and get to meet students with the same interests and hopefully communicate with them throughout the course and beyond. Forums are great to express opinions etc but there's nothing like talking face to face aye? :D
     
    Certifications: A+, MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-270
  5. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    yep but you can also get free support on a forum like this one and it's available 24 hours a day.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. tbone152

    tbone152 Nibble Poster

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    Absolutley but as I said, there's nothing like meeting face to face. And I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as you've stated many, many times before your opinions on TP's.
     
    Certifications: A+, MCP, MCDST
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  7. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I wouldn't dispute that meeting face to face with other students is good, my main concern with TPs is more of the financial side of things then the fact that some over certify people.

    I have no issue with anyone who uses one one, but I believe some people are under the impression I was when I first started studying and that was: I thought you needed to do a course to get a certification, I did not know that you could just pay for and take the exams whenever you wanted.

    obviously one to be avoided http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=28880
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. tbone152

    tbone152 Nibble Poster

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    And that's good advice. My issue is when people say how c**p they are etc. I just wanted to say I've had a good experience and would happily advocate using them in the future.:D
     
    Certifications: A+, MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-270
  9. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Good point:thumbleft

    Not only that I found talking to other students either face to face or or through email, very motivating and often bounced ideas and problems off each other through the course!8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  10. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    That's good to hear, because no one on this forum should be made to feel their opinion about a TP is not valid (whether they have a good or bad experience with a TP). People's opinion still count!8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  11. tbone152

    tbone152 Nibble Poster

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    Exactly. Good to hear other people have had positive experiences too.:p
     
    Certifications: A+, MCP, MCDST
    WIP: 70-270
  12. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    My TP has been great

    The telephone support great, email support great

    Workshops brilliant and fun too

    Materials for A+ weren't so great but they have just started to use Meyers.
    its the AIO split into two books essentials and technician with extra questions in the back of each.
    Also reformatted to make it easier to see points of revision. Plus there own materials

    I know this because i also own the original AIO aswell

    Practise exam cds were very useful.

    and as a fall back free retakes

    When you add this up and realise they are also a business the cost isnt really that bad/ Which i claimed back anyway whilst as a Limited business. I would also say depending on who you use some experience is a must

    A happy customer ... but still a way to go
     
    Certifications: Loads
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  13. supernova

    supernova Gigabyte Poster

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    I sort of agree, i think its each to their own whatever works for you

    The last two people i saw complaining about TP's had wasted a year and wouldn't have had time to complete . If you use TPs you have to plan goals and take into account some fall back time. Most recommend a time line any way.

    I personally like this because i know if i was self studying i wouldn't be moving forward.
     
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  14. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I've used a TP, self study and the OU.

    I think that in the balance of fairness it's worth pointing out the the drop out rate for the OU was pretty high over the two years I did - Only about 60% of my tutorial group made it to the end of the year.

    I dropped out of the third year myself due to work commitments, and they aren't inclined to hand out any kind of refunds either...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  15. Mr Machfisto

    Mr Machfisto Nibble Poster

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    Its good to see many positive views on TP's, but I'm afraid there will always be a negative view from certain posters, even if they have had no experiences with TP's
     
  16. mickaveli2001

    mickaveli2001 Byte Poster

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    My experience with them is far from satisfactory. I was given an A+, N+ and MCSA for over £3200.

    I think the main problem with them is the deviousness of them, and how they operate. The salesmen and saleswomen are labeled as "course advisers" to begin with, to make naive people believe they are educational lecturers or something, and they tell a lot of fabricated stories on salary, job prospects and about the course itself. They insult peoples intelligence, and they purposely exploit peoples desire to progress in life academically and occupationally by using their crafty sales tactics. Go into a genuine college though, and you get far superior advise and recommendations, and they don't look at you as their next tally in their monthly sales target, and you speak with real tutors in IT

    TP's may work for some people. I had 36 months I think to complete the A+, N+ or MCSA, so study in your 'own pace' is not exactly correct.

    Most training providers seem to take a debit deposit of the same value of the monthly repayment cost you'll be paying, so that's £75-125, which comes out your bank within 2 days after signing the agreement. It happened to me, I thought I would be entering a direct debit agreement - which typically take 4 weeks to set up, little did I know an instant debit deposit was taken from my account, even though I had written my cancellation letter the very next day and sent it recorded next day delivery, and to get my deposit back was strenuous and prolonged - deliberately IMO so that I would give up pursuing a refund and just stick with it. These tactics are common practice amongst the majority of TP's and that among many other reasons are why I vote NO to them

    I want my educational aspirations to be in the hands of 'honest', good-willed people, not sharks and piranahs
     
    Certifications: NC Communication/Computing
    WIP: A+
  17. Arroryn

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed Moderator

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    So you had a bad experience of the salespeople and financial implications of the course, not of the material the distance training provider had to offer?
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
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  18. dmarsh
    Honorary Member 500 Likes Award

    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I totally agree, part time distance learning with assignments and deadlines is probably the hardest type of education. TP's and the OU both suffer from this. At least with self study you can study at your own pace. With a local college and night classes you get support, motivation, deadlines and face to face contact, this is probably the best option if its available. Full time study at a college is also an excellent option but does mean you are missing years in employment.

    Thats my whole point, with installments you have a 'stop loss' or regular 'opt out' points.

    A 'stop loss' is where even if you do walk away at any point you will only lose a limited amount, here this is as a maximum the amount of any one installment.

    An 'opt out' point is where you have periods where you will lose nothing as you have got to the end of the installment period and have recieved the service, so both parties are square, you have not however paid up front so you can leave having just paid for what you've had. With a TP there are only possibly two opt out periods, one for 7 days at the beginning if you pay with credit or get doorstepped and one after 3 years if you complete the full course. A bad TP could quite easilly ensure neither of these happened if they wanted to.

    You should never be relying on getting a refund, with the OU you only pay per course and can pay in installments. You don't pay £4k for a full degree all at once upfront.
    I have spoken to my OU tutor and she ensures me that the OU is flexible and trys to help out should a student suffer a 'life event', what happens if a TP student suffers such an event with the common 36 month TP deadline ?
    Flexibility is important, thats why I advocate no 'lock ins' and no upfront.


    Signing a contract saying you will pay the full amount whatever or by paying the full amount in advance is nuts, this completely destroys your bargaining position at the get go. They have you 'by the balls' as they put it, why should they do anything for you after that ? I wouldn't look at such an agreement for a millisecond.

    If you want to work in IT you need to develop strategies for an imperfect world, not put your hands over your ears and pretend you live in a perfect world.
     
  19. mickaveli2001

    mickaveli2001 Byte Poster

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    The materials didn't look up to much, and I read through the CompTIA A+ manual, and it was more difficult than other A+ materials. The CD-Rom looked like a freebie from a magazine. The rest was leaflets and filler junk, Not worth the £3000+ figure. Perhaps the N+ and MCSA would have been better, but I doubt it

    Not to mention the letter I received from the TP conforming my cancellation and informing me that the "course adviser" no longer works in my area, and that I would have to send all materials back myself. It looked like a template letter to me.
    It's all fine when I'm inquiring about a course, there's no shortage of "course advisers" in my area willing to see me and "discuss" further, yet when I am canceling --- **looks left, looks right, looks left again (with confused look)** No one works in my area anymore. What a surprise!! Doesn't exactly endorse self-assurance in that when they get your money and you're willing to work through the course that they'll actually be any "course advisers" in the area to assist through any problems

    They don't even care if you know the content of the subject that you're studying. They just want you to pass to flaunt a legitimate pass rate to potential future custome........ sorry - "Students"!!!
     
    Certifications: NC Communication/Computing
    WIP: A+
  20. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Ew.
    I honestly don't know in this scenario, as I paid for my courses up front.
    However, I would suggest that if you pay in full, or by installments, you will be expected to cough up the full amount.

    If you enter into a contract with Sky TV, or a mobile phone etc, you may well have the option to pay by installments. That doesn't give you the right to stop paying just because you stop using the service (unless it is specifically PAYG) - there are always cancellation clauses on these things.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD

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