what do you know about UK IT Training centre?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Richdog, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    Just 'cos others screw up, is no reason to do so yourself. By all means get into IT, but do so for the right reasons...

    Well, its newer.. but either one is equally useful at the moment. At your level, by the time you get around to using an MCSE, it'll be replaced by Vista or whatever anyhow!
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  2. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    um...i wasnt talking about myself. :unsure
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  3. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Cough...
    So they don't want your £5000 then?
    Oh well, it's a tough life.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  4. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    actually i said exactly the opposite :blink
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  5. IT 2005

    IT 2005 Bit Poster

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    Hi

    I telephoned them about 6 months ago, very aggresive on phone " if you cant come in to the centre forget it ".

    All job guarantees are a shame and have tiny writing like " if we dont get you a job within 3 month sof you finishing we will giv eyou back £200 blah blah blah".

    When i was youger i was naive like most ( i am now 44 ), dont believe any company that there is a job for you after training.

    YOU and only YOU are responsible for getting yourself an IT Job.

    Start with a Comptia A+ course spend about £1,000 ( i have had good experiene of www.learnit4less.co.uk ) very reasonable price and very good value, they resell netg products.

    If you spend £1,000 on training and you dont like IT or give up you have lost £1,000 if you spend £5,000-£10,000 on IT Training and you hat eit after 3 onths you have lost £5,000-£10,000 dont be a mug dont risk it all just find an IT Training Company that will charge you £1,000 max.

    I would never pay a London IT TRaining company for training they ar eoverpriced because of the rent, and the cultur eof London is rip um off, get that sale at no cost and beause London is such a big place directors and staff of corrupt companies can just dissapear with you money.

    Go for family run small firms outside london that send training material to you door so you get everything up front.

    Also negotiate on the exams, say you sign up for a course that contains 2 exams at £100 each for A+ tell the training company to discount he exams as you will pay for the exams yourself 6 month sdown th eline, or you will be charged inteest on the loan from the day you sign up for a course if bank loan, if cdl an dthe provider puts down 2 years on cdl application you still have tp start paying after 2 years so why not ask for top up of cdl after 6 month sof study of cdl and say the cdl lasts another 2 years from there you wont have to pay for those £200 exam fees for 2 half years , hope i am understood i am rushing to get back to the programme on tv abou macdonalds and fat ...

    Great article in sunday times last weekend, 38,000 networking jobs will be unfilled by 2008 in UK and 615,000 in europe.

    So take A+, nETWORK+, Security+ is my recommendation then if you like networking and want mre money go for a CCNA much easier than that crap MCSE which is a paper certiifcate.
     
  6. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    you sound a tad bitter it2205. Any cert can be a paper cert. MCSE gets a bad reputation simply 'cos it's so popular. If you think there are no A+, Net+, Security+ or CCNA certified folks out there that are paper only you're deluded.

    All a paper cert holder need do is braindump the exams. job done.. cert got.

    Also, there's reputable and shoddy training companies everywhere, not just in London and while rent may be higher in London, competition drives down prices and there's certainly more students to be had in london, so all in all, I dont think london companies are overpriced at all
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  7. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Actually my MCSE *is* a paper certificate. It is nice paper though , so nice I have framed it and have it hanging on the wall of my office 8)

    I had seven years experience in IT prior to undertaking the MCSE. It still took me three years hard slog and a couple of the more difficult exams took me almost a year each just to study and prepare for them. So I somewhat take exception to your glib remark!

    There are many MCSEs on this board and IMHO they are all worthy of the accreditation.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  8. AJ

    AJ 01000001 01100100 01101101 01101001 01101110 Administrator

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    I'm with you here Bluerince, I also take exception to that remark. It took me 3 years hard slog to get my MCSE and I'm proud to have it. Throughout the forums you will see different advice on learning, providers and the rest. We all do it differently and have stories and advice to give.

    I would suggest that you think about the wording of your posts a bit more carefully and restrain your somewhat blatent advertising of a certain company.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCSA (messaging), ITIL Foundation v3
    WIP: Breathing in and out, but not out and in, that's just wrong
  9. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Well, you used to have a lot more credibility with me than you do now. The last two phrases of that paragraph pretty much killed your crediblity with me.

    I went through an MCSE program that was one where you actually went to the place of business 5 days a week, 4 hours a day, and they had a couple of instructors there. It was "self-paced" but they only allowed 30 days to pass an exam. LOL. What a joke. I know of very few people who can have the working knowledge required to pass 70-216 in 30 days.

    Now, I bring that up because what I experienced was much more "support" than many of the companies that are mentioned here give, and yet the program I was in was a rip off. For a newbie to pass the tests in the required time frame they had to brain dump their way through the certs. And, the cost of that program was $7500. That's right at the bottom end of what I've seen quoted by London trainers.

    I got through my MCSE because I had a lab at home and worked at this anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day. I also seem to be a "natural" at several aspects of computing. Understanding them comes very easily to me. Very few people have that ability or that much time to devote to study.

    So, when your posts begin reflecting reality a little more you'll regain some credibility with me once more.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  10. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    excuse me ?

    so you had a bad experience at one place of business? I won't say where I teach, but there, and at two other places I can think of right off, trainees had at least 30 hours of competent classroom learning per week for x amount of weeks. Yup, there were overall time limits, but trainees can always pay per course. Granted it may cost more. But to tar all training providers with one brush is asinine, and your comment is poorly thought through

    Thats strange, because an MCSE is on average 2,500 quid in London - that usually comprises A+, Network+ and the microsoft courses. Not bad value for 5 weeks training - it works out at about 100 a day, or just over 15 quid an hour. Hardly extortionate.

    Granted some places take the piss, but the idea is to shop around for a good training provider. There's loads of good advice here on how to beat the salesmen, but dont' tar the training by the salesmanship. Like I said, there's good and bad.

    Frankly, if I have to attain some state where I presume ALL classroom training is a rip off before I can regain credibility in your eyes, I'll pass...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  11. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Im with Clyde on this
    if your doing a pound for dollar conversion here Freddy then your the one out of step
    it doenst work that way, and its well known, i couldnt walk out of a job in london on x and walk into a job in the states on x*exchange rate, many MANY other factors come into play here, and as someone who routinely travels between the UK and US I can vouch for this first hand

    same can be said for courses
    most london training providors are around the 2500-4000 mark, you can get it for even less in some places, im not sure how thats extortianate, i find more problems with the companies who want to train you in 5 certs in 5 weeks
    an MCSE in 5 weeks onsite + home study is attainable, provided your prereq knowledge is sound (and remember there are pre reqs in most cases, even MS target the cert at a perticular audience category), how much home study is upto you
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  12. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I don't think that all training companies everywhere are bad. Sure...like any business, you have honest ones and vendors that are less than adequate. Before I went the public education route, I tried on one of the private vendors where I live but I didn't get a good feeling from them. I explored the available options and determined that I would get more bang for my buck by taking a two-year course at the local uni.

    They didn't charge me an arm and a leg and of course, they never promised that I would have a job by the time I graduated. Their coursework mapped to several certs but not directly. Students chose to take whatever cert exams they wanted to but taking those exams wasn't a requirement to pass classes.

    I do know people who've gone the private route and were quite happy with the results. I think it depends on finding the right vendor to fit your needs. I wouldn't let one bad experience with one company taint the lot of them.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  13. NATZ

    NATZ New Member

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    I visited the training centre last week, impressed i was but also unsure about the 2550pounds for the 1st part training! i am looking for any one who has more info on these guys to help my decision, prefrebiy someone who has done the training or who has some idea on how realistic computer training costs are to these.xxxnatzxxx :rolleyes:
     
  14. _omni_

    _omni_ Megabyte Poster

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    some info:

    you have a limit of 1 year to complete the ECDL, A+, N+, MCSA.
    then an additional 6 months to complete the MCSE and Security+.

    that price you quoted is without the VAT, i believe.

    their "guaranteed employment" is only valid if you do both parts of the course, not just the first.

    the building is very nice.

    i found them quite rude on the phone.

    depending on where you live, it can be quite out of the way.
     
    Certifications: MCSE 2003, MCSA:M
  15. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Oops. Looks like I posted here and then forgot I had.

    Here's how I see all this about training providers. I have yet to see one that is really honest. The odds say there have to be, I just haven't seen one.

    These companies will take a newbie to computing, and when I mean newbie I mean someone who is a casual user with no real idea of what is going on with their computer, and tell them they can get them certified in a certain number of days. They tell them that it will cost X number of dollars but fail to tell the noob that if they are really going to get their money's worth out of this training they must have a lab set up at home with all the relevant software and OS's. They leave that completely out of the picture but it is as necessary as breathing if a person is going to come out of any training program with real, working knowledge.

    They also fail to tell their students that they will need a whole lot of outside study to really understand what is going on. They fail to really teach the fundamental computing concepts that must be understood. Why? Because their goal is to get someone certified, not adequately trained in IT. There is a huge difference between the two goals.

    Certified does not equal adequately trained. But, adequately trained means you're capable of being certified every time. If the trainers focused on what is really necessary to get, and perform adequately in, an IT job then they would do a far better job training people. As a result the value of everyone's certs would rise tremendously.

    The training programs also have a habit of "guaranteeing" jobs. This is as misleading as one can get in the IT world. No certification is going to get someone a job. Especially one that was gotten with book study and very little hands on work because it will be very obvious to any experienced IT guy who interviews them just what their knowledge is comprised of, and if it's just book learning the newbie with the cert has, forget it. He's not going to get a job.

    Third, very few if any of these companies really adequately prepare someone who studies certification for the real world. They teach gui usage, and that's about it. In the real world command line knowledge and scripting knowledge are very necessary skills.

    Now, the training providers will argue, but we're only teaching certification. Yup. That's right. That's all they are teaching. Yet they imply in their advertising and instruction that they are preparing people to get a real job in the real world. I find that fundamentally dishonest.

    This isn't anything personal against any specific trainer because the possibility of individual trainers being honest is much higher than that of the industry in general.

    Now, no one has to agree with my points. However, I find them logical, true, and in the best interest of all those who enter any training regimen. I'm an advocate for those individuals who have goals and ambitions are being misled as to what it really takes to reach those goals, and yet are paying very good money to try to reach them, only to find out that the holy grail of certification is not the same as what is needed to get, and keep, a job.

    Disagree if you must or will. My principles tell me this is where I must stand.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  16. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    freeloader - you go on constantly about trainers in that post- trainers don't sell these courses, salespeople do.

    Trainers have to deal with students who are missold courses all the time and it sucks big time.

    Im pretty much every class I teach theres about 10 - 15% who ought not to be there. another 10 - 15 % who shine, and the remainder are ok...

    but it ain't a trainers responsibility to sell, but to teach.

    and one thing I'll agree on, the IT training industry is shark filled waters - but the trainers ain't the sharks... some are crap, but thats another story... though a decent training company will get rid of them pronto
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  17. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    I am the other side of the planet but my experience mirrors Freddy's exactly.

    Nobody told me I needed a home lab, nobody told me I would have to self study my butt off, nobody told me that I would not be anywhere near ready to sit the exam after the MOC course, nobody told me that the company was going to go out of business half way through my MCSE, nobody told me that every other person I would meet on the way would drop out :eek:

    In retrospect I have learned much in the last four years, the vast majority of which is down to my own perseverance and self study and nothing to do with the training company that initially took my dosh.

    Incidentally I won't mention the name of the company I trained with because this is an unfair medium to vent my opinions. I have let them know personally how I feel. All of these training providers are much of a muchness.

    Clyde, I have met some brilliant dedicated trainers and I respect most of them. I am certain that most trainers do their best with what they have to work with (MOC). The problems seem to stem from how the training is *sold*.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  18. Clyde

    Clyde Megabyte Poster

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    bluerinse - I agree, IT training to newbies is sold appallingly. Its a quick money making racket in general. Then again, there would'nt be a market if it was sold ethically as you'd end up turning away 90% of the applicants!

    My concience and I battle with this one whenever I see a really poor student. But I love what I do so I grit my teeth and get on with it. Thankfully, I can honestly say, where I work is far from the worst place. Its got its faults, but in general, its reasonable. The contract the students get and sign is crystal clear for a start. And lets be honest, anyone who hears A from a salesman, reads B in the contract and complains when B materialises instead of A has little to complain about, except the saleperson - and complain to the company about them...

    Edited to add, as a trainer, I've also been shafted by training companies going bust and reneging on deals.. it's cost me over 2 grand to date. One lot only paid 1/2 what they owed and the other went bust 2 days into a course.. needless to say I saw nothing from them...
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA, MCSE
    WIP: MCITP
  19. IT 2005

    IT 2005 Bit Poster

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    Admin (J): Repetitive Spamming removed
     
  20. raggatip

    raggatip New Member

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    Oh my God never before have I felt so ripped off in my life. I started last year with this company. Thinking it was a job as they had a tiny little advert in the job section I called them up. They gave my a brief interview over the phone checking me out to see if I was made of the right stuff......then you go to an interview with them. I unfortunately just knew I wanted to get trained up and put into a job. I hadn't done any research on the various courses but they sell it so hard that it makes you think it will be impossible to fail even though they don't really do their research on you. I was also lured in by a fit sales girl who had a well nice cleavage and as I sat opposite I noticed when i had to sign the contract she would bend over the desk and the more I paused to think whether I should sign it the more she would bend forwards....ahh! Anyway £5,800 that little exchange of hormones cost me. I've done loads of research since then and reckon it could be obtained for half that price easily. You get an ECDL, A+, Network+, MCSA, MCSE and Security+. That is a lot but believe me you can do it all self study more effectively. I had my doubts whether I needed tuition but they tell you that you will crash sooner or later....yeh right....their classes last 5 days for various courses and I learnt nothing since the lecturers progress too quickly and frown if you don't understand. The books are not supplied prior to doing the course. They supply when you attend. Therefore you cannot swat up before the course. Of course the lecturers will get annoyed when you're not prepared and holding up the class. I have progressed quite far but can categorically say that is without their assistance. Some of the people in reception are monkeys since they give you misleading advice due to thier own ignorance ie in regards to which exams are to be taken for the career track. To think that I could have bought that R1 by now pees me off. Anyway why am I telling you all this....well the reason is you pay for a service and you expect a good service in return. Loads of people are totally unprepared and don't know what they are paying for. It is our naivety but if we are informed then at least we have more information at our disposal to make an informed choice. I personally hate seeing money going in to companies like this that prey on peoples dreams and ambitions. Anyway guys good luck with your careers. Self taught is the way to go. Trust me if you struggle then consider this option but have a go at self study first as you'll progress in the job market just as effectively. By the way if you do the full career track and don't complete a certain amount of qualifications within a year you will have wasted half the money you put down in the first place!! Ouch! Another thing....you even have to pay for the coffee.
    So there we have it...you give me your £5,800 I'll give you 37 days of study bearing in mind 14 of those you won't need for the ECDL, surely. The remaining 23 progress at such a pace you won't learn anything. I'll also give you a cd rom for your ECDL but you have to give it back to me and if you don't you'll give me another 200 odd quid. Yeh I know in the contract I didn't mention the study books....they're nice but you don't come to my classes you won't get them. Since I didn't mention them in the contract well you're not missing anything then are you!? Yeh I know there is another 20 odd days of training but if you don't complete your ECDL, A+, Network+ and MCSA in 12 months then you're buggered mate...gutted. Oh you still need to pay for the exams. Look up the cost of those cos I don't know how much they cost...not much though I don't think
     

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