What counts as "entry level" in IT?

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Hi Arron,

Thanks for the reply, I have recently moved not a million miles from you (Pontypridd), I haven't spoken to many agencies, not lately anyway, I may try again, perhaps you could let me know how you get on when you speak to them, or recommend who is worth giving a try? PM me if you like

 

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Try finding IT related user groups. I met a lot of people in IT by joining a LUG, a Linux User's Group. Find out what type of IT related user groups there are in your area. You'll get that first job much quicker through people you know, and who know you, than through the cold-calling sales process that is the traditional job hunt using resumes and cover letters to people who don't know you from Adam.

 

The usage of server 2k3 and xp pro is 100% of my jobs and is the monotoring of rips and servers.

I use server 2k3, xp pro and the rips to spprove and output pages for newspaers that come in as PDFs also I have to configure the system we use called print express to pair the pages together i.e an 80 page newspaper 1 and 80 go together and so on and so on.

The re-mapping of drives and server failovers I do only happen when they crash which is very rarley although I need no documentation or guidance on doing so as I have done it before. So I would say I have done this maybe 8 or 9 times over the 7 years I have worked at my place of employment.

Rip 1 is the license server and if that one goes down then the other 2 rips stop functioning, this is a simple case of rebootong the license server and making sure appletalk etc is running if not then this is when I am required either to get IT to failover ther servers in the server room or if it happens when I am there after IT go home to do it myself.

The rest of my job is output the plates the the pages appear on and give them to the printers.

So I would say in total 70% is computer related and 30% manual work.

 

I think maybe you're misunderstanding me a little. It sounds as if most of your job requires you to use a computer, but that's not the same thing as IT related work. Many people use XP all day but do nothing IT related. They can even be considered to be power users and do that.

IT related work would be the time you spend repairing/configuring/reconfiguring/modifying the OS, the network, software, settings, etc..., on, or for, the systems that you use all the time to do your normal work.

 

Not very often then is my answer to that, only from time to time.

It depends on how busy the IT dept is.

 

I had 6 years of "experience" doing the same as you, unofficially, before I got my first "real" IT job. Because of it, when I did break into IT, I advanced rather quickly. I believe that real-world experience in a real-world environment made all the difference in the world. My customers saw that, and I was given a permanent job with a much higher salary. You very well might be in the same boat when you get your first "official" IT job.

So do I have 10 years of experience... or do I have 16?? Doesn't matter much, at this stage... bottom line is, I'm experienced with certain technologies, and that experience is in demand. Again, your situation will likely be the same, over time.

Freddy's right, though: if your employer will vouch for your skills, you could list it as experience.

For the record, I list that 6-year job on my resume as:

July 1992 – February 1998 Operations Analyst - Company Name: Nashville, TN
Maintained several on-site and remote telemessaging systems; trained call center operators and managers

If maintaining computerized telemessaging systems means I was in IT, so be it. If not, that's fine too. Either way... it likely helped me get the job I got in '98:

February 1998 – September 1998 Field Service Technician - Another Company Name: Nashville, TN
Provided on-site and remote hardware, software and network support and training

 

So hopefully the experience I do have will help me advance quickly but I should still go for entry level/trainee right?

I have just applied for a trainee tech support covering 3 sites for a solicitors, I think the support part is for around 450 users in Total.

I can do most of the objectives covered in what is involved in the job so hopefully it will work out.

 

I think you're still looking at this in a slightly colored light. Your familiarity is worth a lot. A person develops a comfort level with things over time and sort of figures out how things fit together, even if they don't have specific knowledge of something. They gain confidence in their ability to do other tasks.

If you can get your supervisor to vouch for the computer work you've done, it's still far better than nothing, and shows you have the aptitude. If you didn't, you wouldn't have picked up what you did without any formal training. That's a lot more than some people wanting to break into IT have to show.

I wouldn't call your experience "nothing".

 

Whatever job you can get, get. Apply for whatever. Eventually, something will stick.

Sounds like a good opportunity, GBL! My last site was a 450-user operation. We had a couple of level 1 techs, a senior network admin (me) who did all the server/app/network/firewall/router/infrastructure work, an application support manager (who did a few techie things related to the medical apps, but mostly oversaw proper standardized usage by the staff), a finance app support guy (who mostly performed basic administration and reporting for the financial apps), and an IT director.

 

I received and filled in the application form this morning and posted it off, so hopefully I will hear something soon.

I had to put in my salary I am getting at the moment and job did not specify a salary. Do you think it is ok to say at an interview that I can not afford to drop any lower than what I presently get. (in case the salary is lower than what I get)

 

No probs Mikeyboy. I got my CCNA boot camp this weekend so I will be joining a few agencies sometime next week. I will let you know how I get on. At the moment im studying hard and just setup my tiny CCNA home lab :

2 x Cisco 2501 Ethernet Dual Serial Router 16mb Flash / 16mb Dram / IP Plus 12.3 IOS
1 x Cisco 2924-XL-EN 24 Port Fast Ethernet Switch with latest Ver 17 Enterprise IOS

Looking to add another router and switch by xmas.

Good luck in the meantime.

 

1) Not unless the subject comes up during the interview (it usually won't come up until you have an offer letter in hand), and
2) Not unless you want to risk immediately taking yourself out of consideration.

My advice to you would be to wait, see what they offer, THEN decide whether you want to take a pay cut/increase to switch to IT... more importantly, your first REAL job in IT, which is quite difficult to get. Don't pass it up without very careful consideration... even at a pay cut. Just something to consider...

 

If the job was offered to me and they said you will getting less money then I would have to decline it because of debt repayments, if the job was advertised this coming March then I would have no problems in a pay cut.

Increase would be no problem at all.

They will know what my salary is at the moment as I had to put in the application so I am guessing they wouldn't ask me for an interview if they were going to drop me lower than what I am on, or am I being Naive?

 

They might... and they might not. If they believe that you're unhappy in your current job, they might think that you'd bite at a lower offer. Similarly, they might think that you'd bite at a lower offer just to get into a real IT job. However, it's a good sign that they want to interview you after they discovered your current salary... that means you're both in the same ballpark, and not likely too far off.

So, let's say they offered you a job for less salary than you're on. How much less is "too little"? Could you handle £1000 less? £500? Not a penny less? Just asking, because you need to be prepared for any eventuality.

That said, if they offer less, and you can't take less, don't decline: counteroffer! Let's say you're making £10,000 (for round numbers' sake), and I offered £9,500. Counteroffer with £10,500 in the hopes that you can meet in the middle at £10,000! There are many ways to skin a cat...

 

I can't afford to drop a single penny, I already took 12.5% pay cut at work so I cutting it fine as it is, but I suppose I will have to wait untill the interview if I am asked, I would say yes to the job if it was for the same money but can't afford any lower.

 

Then be prepared to counteroffer... realizing that you may have to say "no" if they don't budge, or that they might have to say "no" if they have another applicant with similar skills who is willing to do the job for less.

GBL, having to take a pay cut to break into IT is one of the main reasons people attempt to get into IT, but never end up doing it. Not saying you HAVE to take a pay cut to get started... I'm simply saying that this is the main reason why some people never end up breaking into IT. That's why my brother never did... he's A+ and MCP certified, but he makes over $40K per year as a drugstore manager. He's (supposedly) miserable in his job... but he isn't willing to take a pay cut to get out. And since he has no aspirations to become a district manager, he's likely at his salary ceiling, whereas if he were to get out of retail sales, he'd be able to advance far past that salary, in time. Thus, he has become a slave to his own debts and desires... doing what he's forced to do rather than what he'd (supposedly) enjoy doing.

 

Once my debts are paid then I will have no problem in taking a pay cut (and I will if need as IT is WHAT I want to do), but seen as though I saw this job I thought would apply I can always counter offer as you say or they can say no.

But I am being hypothetical at the mo because I havent been offered an interview yet.

 

Thats a good idea, if they ask me what I want I will say what I need to comfortably live on and hope they don't say no (if I get an interview).

 

Is the average salary for a similar job in your area, more or less than what you are on now? If its more, then you have a good chance of keeping what you're on now - ie, £15k for IT, you're on £12k - you not only have the stats to use and show what the market value is, you also have a few grand to lose before the job is a non-starter for you.

Alternatively, you could always be straight up if the offer is less than what you can take, say that in March it would not be a problem but now you can't for debt reasons - I've heard people before being honest about their situation, be it needing time off work each day, or shorter Fridays and so work longer days the rest of the week, as long as the company get what they need from you sometimes they don't care!

It's only 5 months until the end of March - if you're on £13k now, £1000 a year less would work out at work out at a drop of £55 per month - if thats OK after March - is £250 going to make that much difference? I'm not prying, nor do I expect/want/need an answer, just trying to put across some food for thought.

As an aside - for those who need a salary calculator, either for contract or permanent work go to http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/ and use the text boxes on the front page.
Sorry UK only by the looks of it.