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Views/thoughts on Train2game

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Mark_D, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. Mark_D

    Mark_D Bit Poster

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    Hey everyone. I've been looking at various routes into the IT industry and one of the TPs that caught my eye was train2game. After hanging around their forums for a bit I'm happy that it's a genuine course they are offering and not some sort of scam - but I'm not totally convinced on the qualification they offer or the fact that it's even possible for a person to spend around 3 years learning a subject and then expect game development studios to just hire you... it all seems a bit too good to me.

    If, for instance I was to join the C++ developer course, would 3 years home study be long enough to be able to learn the ins and outs of the language well enough to be able to fill a role in a studio?

    I like the sound of the course and I like the idea behind it, but I'm really skeptical that any studio would want to hire someone just off the back of this course.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well firstly game development is not general IT, so you might be better approaching a forum that specialises in game dev or at least new media.

    I agree with your concerns, development is hard to get into, game development is probably even harder. Therefore you maybe better off learning general skills so as not to limit your employment opportunities. I'm sure if you had a physics or computer science degree from Cambridge you'd get a look in at most studios!

    It is possible to become highly proficient in C++ in 3 years, is it likely purely by self study ? Probably not in most cases, you will need a peer group, support, motivation etc. Such things are easier at a full-time university or with on the job mentoring while in work.

    The total number of game developer positions that come up each year must be rather limited. Take away from that people who already have experience and are looking, then those with masters or bachelors degrees in media or game development, then take away those that have more general degrees, there is not going to be many positions left, so you had better shine if your T2G qualification is going to get you anywhere.

    TIGA the body that approves T2G courses, has projected that development positions will be down by 30% from 2008-2015. Where will all these unemployed programmers go ? Where will the positions for all the new graduates come from ?

    Game development salaries are also quite low on average, the hours are long and there are frequent lay-off's in the industry. There are estimated only 10,000 game development positions in the whole of the UK. There are probably as many people on game development courses in any one year as the whole industry can support.

    Finally playing games is not the same as making games, developers are engineers, you need to think like an engineer and be able to program. Why not pick up a beginners C++ book or attend a BTEC course and see if programming is for you before you make a large financial commitment ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
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  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    It depends do you actually want to be a programmer?

    IT is very difficult to get into whatever path you take wether you go with a TP or self study or do a course at college. Most people I know who are programmers have been to college and got degrees or did open university courses.

    Most IT techs I know either selft studied or did college courses or both.

    Have a search on this forum incase train2gain has been mentioned before. I myself would never use a TP because of the costs involved and the false promises some of them make.

    Research them thoroughly before you sign anything.
     
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  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    They are a division of skillstrain/scheidegger.

    Go figure.
     
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  5. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    As the knights of camelot would say in the Holy Grail "Run awaaaaaaaay" :)
     
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  6. Mark_D

    Mark_D Bit Poster

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    Do you have a link that proves this? I've seen this alot on their forum and each time it's refuted by the staff.

    As for Train2game itself - I have investigated them and the courses as far as I can, but with my limited knowledge I'm now in a position where I would like to do the course (yes, I would like to develop games), but I'm not 100% convinced that 3 years is long enough be able to have the knowledge to be employable.

    I have also taken a good hard look at the self-teaching routes... I would just feel a lot more comfortable knowing that if I got stuck I had a tutor I could email/phone rather than just trying to re-read something I don't understand until it hopefully makes sense... that's just me - so I've pretty much accepted that I'll be going with a TP, I'm just trying to gather some views before I jump in.

    Cheers guys
     
  7. Mark_D

    Mark_D Bit Poster

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    Nice post - for some reason I didn't see this when I checked the thread a minute ago...

    I understand what you're saying about a mainstream qualification rather than a game dev specific course, I've looked into this aswell but I can;t find anything similar. I'm not in a position where I can go back to full or part-time education, I'm 33 and I need to work :(
    So self-teaching or distance learning is it. The only other programming course I found was the C# .net course run by computeach, not exactly what I want.

    I have been self learning from the book "Accelerated C++" while I've been deciding what I want to do and I've found it quite enjoyable... though the logic loops are causing me some headaches.

    Thanks for your insight.
     
  8. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    The staff are whitewashing the issue. Its well known and proven.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skillstrain
    http://www.collativelearning.com/SKILLSTRAIN SCAM & REFUND.html
    http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2009/10/a-legal-letter-for-the-collection-from-train2game/

    They even tried to sue Google when some people mentioned the company links, the questionable reputation of the parent company, and their views on the course on another forum in the US.

    They are linked to Scheidegger, Skillstrain, Train2Game, Train4Trade Skills, Metropolitan International Schools Limited, Career Development Finance, B.S.T Credit Limited and JT Consultancy Limited.

    You will be pretty much self teaching, even the OU has tutor groups, residential schools and real exams. None of this really seems to exist with T2G.

    Why not look at more traditional options from colleges and universities where you will get real face to face tuition, interaction and support ? Not just an email or a phone call, but regular weekly classes, lectures, tutor groups, face to face conversations etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
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  9. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    No, although dmarsh helped me out there with his powers of Google.

    I've just worked in the IT training industry for a long time.
    You ask a question, you decide what to make of the answers...

    :biggrin
     
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  10. Mark_D

    Mark_D Bit Poster

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    I don't live near a uni and none of the local colleges runs an evening computer programming course.
    Full time education is not an option for me, as I said - I work full time and leaving my job to pursue this, as tempting as it is just isn't feasible. Is there any good route into a programming career for someone looking to learn whilst working, or do I have to accept the fact that if I wanted to do this I'd need to have done it years ago?
     
  11. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    1. Nothing to stop you continuing to self study Math, C++, AI, DirectX, OpenGL, shaders, LUA, Game Engines, etc.

    2. The OU have a GameMaker course.

    3. There are hundreds of websites and resoruces out there such as GameDev.net, DevMaster.net, cprogramming.com etc.
    Opencourseware GameDev
    Opencourseware Introductory C and C++
    Opencourseware Introduction to C++
    Opencourseware Maths
    Opencourseware Comp Sci
    Free Game Dev Courses Online

    4. You could look at using XNA and C# to produce indie games for Xbox 360.

    App Hub - Windows Phone and Xbox Live indie games development
    XNA Developer Center
    Coding4Fun | Channel 9

    5. You could consider moving or changing jobs...

    6. You could look at other stuff like Monkey, Unity, Gamemaker, TorqueX, Visual3D.Net, Panda3D, Pygame, DarkBasic.

    7. ICS do a course, not sure if its any good and suffers from many same issues as T2G, however is little cheaper than T2G (but still very expensive for distance learning).

    8. T2G have been known to discount for cash. (However paying a large upfront sum is almost as bad as taking one of their credit agreements.)

    Think outside the box, don't believe the hype...
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  12. Mark_D

    Mark_D Bit Poster

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    Thanks for the links, I should have given a mention to 3dbuzz.com aswell - that is a great resource.
     

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