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Training Schools

Discussion in 'General Microsoft Certifications' started by Med, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    Hi everyone, I started my MCSA course with James Thornton a couple of months ago, and we got 6 weeks instructor led intense lectures, I understood everything the intructor said, but because it was so fast none of it has sank in!

    Now according to this training school, we the students have to go off and revise till we are ready and then sit the exams, I have a feeling all training schools arent like this? They made it sound like we would get qualified in the six weeks, which now I realised is literally impossible! The only benefit to this school is they will find you employment within a week of passing the exams.

    So whats the best way to move onwards from here? Ive got a nicely setup computer with dual monitors, ive installed the virtual pc on there, I dont have a job either (im 20 and still living with parents :oops:) so have loads of time on my hands. is it just a case of buckling down and revising, or is there an easier and more 'fun' way to go about this?
     
  2. MrNerdy

    MrNerdy Megabyte Poster

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    How much did you pay?
    As unemployed you could have got at least the following free from a local college:
    CLAIT, CLAIT +, ECDL, Cisco IT Essentials 1 & A+
    Most colleges have a fund for fee remission for those unemployed.
    You just have to ask!!!
     
    Certifications: ECDL, CiscoIT1 & A+
    WIP: Girlfriend & Network+
  3. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    well paid 8k, thats for mcsa, mcse, cnaa and one other I cant remember, and apparently guaranteed starting salary of 22k
     
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    You can't remember what you forked out 8K for?

    Sorry, but that says it all.

    They're going to be knocking each other over to pay you a 22K salary.

    Sorry, don't mean to sound rude.

    :blink
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Ouch :blink You could have got yourself a degree and a few certs for that.

    Most of my certs were had from self study at about £150 an exam all in, I got a full grant for my HND and Degree, previous employers have paid for all the professional courses I have taken so far.

    I've been in the industry 12+ years and I doubt I spent anything like that on training, maybe if I included all the 200 IT books at £30 a time ? But then I can prob get £5 a time for em on ebay, and I've been paid for the stuff I learnt from them.

    How hard did you haggle ? How about demanding a get out if you don't like the training and the ability to pay in installments ?

    Best of luck with your studies, you better make it work and land that 22k job ! :D
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  6. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Debatable
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  7. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Debatable.. ...again :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  8. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    It was my experience that the training school i attended taught approximately 20% of the material, that in my opinion was necessary to pass the related exam. The remaining 80% we had to learn self study. This is how many TPs (training providers) work. You are not paying them to prepare you for the exams.

    This is the main reason that i advocate self study, because in the end you will be self studying anyway.

    My advice.. consider yourself somewhat duped and get the most you can from the courses and study material. good luck.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  9. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Agreed. I spent far less than that for my Bachelors degree and my certifications.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    Well I'll explain the offer this is what we get:

    A+
    N+
    MCSA + Messenger
    MCSE
    CCNA
    MCDBA
    Free laptop (worth £300)
    4x Microsoft learning activation keys that last 365 days (we'll get more, eg. one for each exam)
    Exams paid for
    £2200 cash

    Still not a very good deal is it? Well when they said we'll get a permanent position earning 22k straight after passing exams or a 100% refund, If we are unemployed we dont pay a penny, just like a student loan.

    But getting back on topic here, Ive been using the CBT Nuggets, with the MIcrosoft learning material including labs, will this cover everything for exams?

    also I found this website www.ucertify.com who sell exam question prep kits, they any good?
     
  11. grim

    grim Gigabyte Poster

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    you do realise that if you put those certs on your CV with no current job or experience employers wont touch you with a barge pole ?

    if you had the relevent experience for those certs in london you'd be looking at 30k easily :)

    Grim
     
    Certifications: Bsc, 70-270, 70-290, 70-291, 70-293, 70-294, 70-298, 70-299, 70-620, 70-649, 70-680
    WIP: 70-646, 70-640
  12. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

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    Welcome to the forum!

    Unfortunately we see far too many cases in the IT industry of training providers miss-selling, and providing unreal expectations to newcomers.

    I'm an experienced engineer and it would take me in between 1-2 years to complete everything you've listed here. Another problem is that by the time you've finished some of these they could be obsolete.

    If I was working in the perm market I'd most likely be looking at £25,000 a year for Sys Admin work. No way on this earth could someone without experience get £22,000 as a starting salary.

    If you start in helpdesk probably 12-16k a year depending on experience
    If you start in desktop probably 15-19k a year depending on experience
    If you start in Systems Administration [I doubt you'd manage this as it's not an entry level job] probably 19-28k depending on experience

    Your best bet is to make the most of the opportunity and work hard. Study a lot at home, use the forum to ask questions, and try to gain some experience by volunteering.
     
  13. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    Thanks very much for that John, put it all into perspective for me. This is what is helpful from this training school, is they will give me a job to start on, and like I said 'apparently' 22k start, which I wont hold my breath to. Whatever it pays to start off with, im still living with parents, and 20 years old, so had loads of time to build some experience with my first company, and ofcourse move onwards and hopefully upwards from there.

    Also as you've pointed out John is that system admin isnt entry level, and I have been keeping an eye on job titles, and the exchange server positions seem to be good pay and also I found it very easy in the lectures so really I am just focusing on the MCSA qualification for now, and maybe push towards entering the exchange field as a starting point and then system admin/engineer? Also I've never seen a 20yr old kid administrate an entire network! hopefully i'll be one of the first 8)

    thanks for all the comments so far.
     
  14. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    If you have a look through CF for threads like I've got my MCSE but no experience and no one will give me a job. There is a reason for this, certs like MCSE, CCNA etc etc are supposed to be for people with experience, employers wont hire someone with no experience and MCSE because of the reason I have mentioned.

    Go ahead if you want but you will do more harm than good as experience is what counts in IT and I am sorry to say that I doubt you will get a 22k a year job as your first IT job even get a job through your training provider and they'llwill probably come up with some speel like ' you don't live in the correct geographical area'.

    All those certs and no experience is a bad move.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Exchange administrator positions are even *less* of an entry-level job... it's basically a systems admin who specializes in Exchange.

    The MCSA is for people who have 6 months to a year experience doing administration in a multi-site, multi-server environment. Not 6 months to a year in IT... but 6 months to a year doing that job. To get a job as a dedicated Exchange admin, where that's your *only* job, it would generally be expected that you've done day-to-day Exchange administration as a systems admin for a while.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    I understand, but I have no choice now, what they've said to me is, I have to complete the MCSA to get a job, once I get a job, it will be 9 to 5, and every monday 6 to 9 I have to attend the MCDBA, MCSE and CCNA courses. Like I said Im not expecting 22k either, whatever position they throw at me as long as the pay is reasonable, i'll take it, and with experience it can only get better :biggrin
     
  17. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    If you can why not look for a job now then getting the xp will help when you get the certs although MCSE candidates should have one years minimum experience in adminestering desktop and networked operating systems thats what Microsoft recommend.

    If I just found this out and I was studying with your training provider I would be saying to them that they have miss sold me the course and I want a refund on the higher certs that I shouldn't be taking untill experienced enough.

    I have always know (well since finding out about MS certs in uni) that most of them were for people already in IT, they are there to back up a persons knowledge and on the job experience is what one of my tutors told me.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  18. Med

    Med Bit Poster

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    sounds like a good idea, what sort of positions should I be looking for?
     
  19. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Entry level support jobs.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  20. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Entry-level jobs, which may include, but are not limited to:

    - help desk tech
    - call center tech
    - field service tech
    - PC repair tech
    - Level 1 tech
    - desktop support tech

    Entry-level jobs do NOT typically include:
    - systems administrator/engineer
    - Exchange administrator
    - database administrator
    - network administrator/engineer
    - network designer/architect
    - security administrator
    - router administrator
    - Level 2/3 tech
    - project manager
    - IT manager/director
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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