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Training Provider Challange

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by iank, Nov 24, 2005.

  1. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    i have mentioned open forum's before, where I challange all the training organisations to join everyone in an open forum. We all know that they monitor this site, but they all declined the offer.

    i also mentioned that a certain training organisation who advertises on this site could be the first and there ad went for a while, but its now back (does this mean there willing?)

    Anyway to the point, how about anyone who is thinking of signing up whether it be with Computeach, Skillstrain, Sheidigger, NITLC or any other one, telling them that you are a member of certforums and before you sign up there are a number of questions that you would like to put to them through the site and see if they are willing?

    my point is that if you were buying a mercedes or any other quality item that they would not have a problem answering questions for all to see!
     
  2. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Erm.... Aren't the adds generated randomly by google?
     
  3. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    possibly but it seams a coincidence if you look back that when i callanged for an open forum before. The ad went and when the heat was off it came back
     
  4. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    Blow me is it my eyes or as the Ad dissapeared again. Now I know that at least 18 people were viewing, when I placed this challange, but in the space of a few seconds google radomly decided to drop the advert.
    What has happened has made me a little dubious about certain things on this site
     
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Yes and no.
    If I was going to buy a new car, I wouldn't expect Ford, Mercedes, BMW etc to compete on an open forum to try and impress me.
    Likewise I wouldn't expect them to give a toss if I happen to mention that I read Auto Trader when I appear in the showroom.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    Good point, but if Mercedes thought that there were certain questions being asked regarding there quality then they would issue a press statement to put things right and not just hope that the dust blows over
     
  7. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    That would depend on who's doing the asking - a class action lawsuit, or one disgruntled user who's a bit jazzed that his clutch cable has snapped after 2000 miles.

    Anyone who wants to sign up with a training provider has the chance to ask any question they want when the 'salesman' visits. These things are often planned a week or more in advance. Do some research, and prepare a brief of the questions you want to ask. If they cannot answer them in a satisfactory manner, then don't sign up. It really is that simple guys and gals. Just because the salesman has driven to you in his nice car and taken half an hour out of his day, does not mean you are morally obliged to sign away thousands of pounds of your money.

    If you feel you need time to think about it, then tell them you want time to think about it. They will probably pressure you for an answer; this is only because they will probably not get the commission if you take time and wait. The contract will go to another salesman in the area at the time you sign on. Do not feel pressurised. It is your home. If you do feel uncomfortable, you are well within your rights to ask them to leave.

    IMO, there is no need for training providers to 'compete' against each other in an open forum. There is certainly no real need for them to 'explain' themselves. From my experiences, and what I have read, there is a certain 'beauty in the eye of the beholder' as far as these companies are concerned. Some people expect the earth; when it comes down to it, these are the people that didn't ask enough questions when they were interviewed. If you are promised something that sounds questionable, get it in writing; that's the only way to make it even vaguely legally binding. There are also people that are happy with their training providers, and know that it takes two to tango when it comes to learning. The stuff isn't going to leap off the page and into your long-term memory.

    The training providers don't have quality issues. Their customers don't ask enough questions when they are given the opportunity. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you invest £3000/£4000 without finding out the nitty gritty and the fine print, then you set yourself up for a fall before you even begin.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  8. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    Yes I understand what you are saying they do not need to compete on an open forum and i am not asking them to compete, just simply asking them to give lots of prospective students the chance to ask any questions, knowing that because it is on a forum like this that the answers are going to be truthful instead of in a one on one situation with a salesman, where he may bend the truth a little. surley if things were as they should be then there should be no objections.

    Also it concerns me the way that certain people on this forum seem to want to protect the training organisations in the way that they do, almost to the point that you get the feeling that maybe this forum is actually run by someone who could be a little biast in there opinions.

    Just as the second that i mentioned open forums again a certain advert disapeared instantly
     
  9. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    As far as I can gather, the adverts that appear on here are automatically generated, as mentioned earlier.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  10. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    So how do we explain the fact that on both occassions when I have mentioned open forum the advert disapeared straight away.

    Must just be coincidence, cant wait to try it again when it re-apears
     
  11. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    Yes just as i thought it came back as soon as I put my last message. MMMmmm

    So seeing as its back and i know that it is monitored by them, there are a lot of questions that i would like answered, the ones that were unanswered by the sales guy who came round to see me, and ignored when i phoned up. They will only need to be answered once for the whole of this forum to see and think of the extra business it would promote.
    All I or any other prospective student wants is the truth and not a load of sales hype
     
  12. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    If they weren't telling you the truth, then you could take them to court incredibly easily, and win. Sometimes they just don't say what people want them to hear.

    When the Skillstrain guy came to see me:

    Me: So, the CCNP can get me £25K+ a year, according to your figures.
    Sales Guy: It sure can, *sales blah*
    Me: Can it get me that figure, ya know, right after I'm qualified?
    Sales Guy: *Sales blah*
    Me: Can it?
    Sales Guy: No. *talks about work experience*

    I signed up, with no illusions.

    (I'm still pretty sure about the ads being random - if you're really concerned, PM a site admin, who can investigate it for you. Alternatively, sign up for Premium Membership - then you won't see them :) )
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  13. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    You're giving me the creeps now.

    If anyone has any questions for a training provider (or anyone else for that matter) the best thing to do is phone them up and ask them.

    If you are convinced that this forum is a massive consiracy run by training providers, then you might be better off elsewhere.

    However, if you want to share the knowledge, experience and Moominboy's jokes then hang around and enjoy yourself.

    And wear a foil hat...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  14. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    I'll get my coat! -jk! :p
     
  15. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    The part about taking them to court. There were a lot of people who were trying to sue Computeach (apparently). How many won?. Its just your word against a sales guy, no real proof of what was said.
    That is why i thought it would be a great idea for anyone who is thinking of signing up to invite the rep to join this site and ask your questions with all these witnesses.
    As for ringing the companies, I havce tried and if you ask the questions that they dont want asking then they never get back to you. It has happened with every one of them. This forum is about information and getting the right kind of help and advice.

    The only reason that these training organisations are not willing is because maybe they are afraid. If they are so good then why should this be?
     
  16. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Ian, with regards to your above comments, please come down from your paranoid high-horse and draw breath for a second. Let me address your concerns in turn.

    1.) We do not add and remove ads on here either on a whim, or as a result of Members' comments about them. As discussed, they are randomly selected and are there as part of the funding of the site. I hardly think we have the time to tinker with these as a result of one Member's opinions.

    2.) The Staff at CertForums are in no way affiliated to any commercial body and work damned hard to maintain a professional integrity and neutrality at all times. We have on numerous occasions in the past defended both students and companies rights as required. If you have it in your mind that we are in any way biased, then feel free to contact any of us to discuss. I will stand by the Staff here to the end in defence of our neutrality.

    3.) We have openly invited any training provider to represent themselves on here. As yet they have chosen not to and we cannot make them, but we can certainly provide that opportunity to do so. If any training company decides not to choose this option, then please take this up with the individual company as to why this is - please do not turn CertForums into a public arena for your outrage. That's not why we are here, and we certainly are not a venting ground for your personal (and often unsubstantiated) opinions.

    Again, I invite you to raise any concerns about the way this site is run with myself or any of the Staff here.

    Thanks :)
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  17. iank

    iank Bit Poster

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    Thankyou for your reply. This is one question that i would like to ask and that is how many if any of the people who run this site and moderators are actually training or have ever been trained by NITLC
     
  18. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Yes Ian - I personally trained with NITLC in the past, and have mainly good reports about them. However. like others, I have also had cause to criticise them, and did so publicly on here (prior to being an Admin on CF, although I was still Staff, as I have been really since the earliest days of the site).

    With this in mind, note that no criticism (to my mind) of them has been removed, and I personally take great care to treat comments about them exactly as I would with any other training company - with an even-handed neutrality. I'll gladly answer any questions about instances where you (or anyone) feels otherwise.

    Thanks for your response. :)
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  19. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    I am proud to say that I have never taken any training with a commercial training provider.

    Everything that I have learnt has been through self study, hands on experience and participating in forums like these.

    Admittedly I am currently doing training, but that is with an academic institution, not a commercial one.

    8)
     
  20. moominboy

    moominboy Gigabyte Poster


    :dry fine then si, i just won't post anymore jokes then! humph! hehehe.


    iank, you're freaking me out as well, i very much doubt that companies hire people to sit and watch this very site and stop,even if they had the jedi power of control over google ads, any ad which appears on this site.

    and frankly,imho, it's a little bit creepy that you do.

    buy the foil my son......:tongue
     
    Certifications: ECDL
    WIP: A+

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