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TPs- who R The Good, The Bad & The Ugly?

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by vik11, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. vik11

    vik11 New Member

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    Hi came here to do some research to try and make progress in my lifeless dead end situation (if you want to know more http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/thread31200.html). Anyway there's loads of great info on here so I'd like to open with a big thanks to mods and all contributors. :cheers :thumbleft

    I was reading through the article on training providers by Arroryn (http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/thread21908.html) which was V interesting.

    but there was no 1 answer. I can gather from it that its safer to go with the well know providers like skillstrain or OU (which I picked up that on the whole they were ok). but how do I spot a bad one. what if I really am letting an opportunity go just because others have had a bad experience from them? I usually take others experience in to great consideration before I take any further steps.

    I had an offer without application from a consultant of Fraser Mckenzie. Doing some research on them I came to find out about some scandals or bad behavior etc. so that put me right off. I also researched FDM Group (although I would not have joined as I would have to relocate for a couple of years at least) they seem to be ok yet there are many that say the training they give is irrelevant or even the work they find you is irrelevant thus suggesting a total waste of a few years not to mention the financial side.

    Now I have seen a advert for a Trainee Network Administrator with Netcom Training and Solutions. They say the duties include support through phones and remote assistance, and log calls and attempting to resolve issues on first call. Sounds great. They go on to say MCSE preferred but not essential as training will be provided. Now I have always thought why an MCSE is preferred on jobs that are lower down the scale like this one? I even read the post about MCSE's and that its worrying that such certs are asked for in these roles. However they say it's not essential as training will be provided. ok thats great.

    don't know the salary yet. I went on to read a description of the company and like always went to research it. what makes me weary is that this company seems to provide everything just like Fraser Mckenzie or FDM and others like them. here is a post I found on CF of one persons opinion/experience http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/thread30125.html

    My worry is I don't want to get into a messed up situation yet these guys have advertised a job which they will provide training for.

    So three Qs come to mind.

    Has anybody else had experience with Netcom?

    Does it sound dodgy that a training provider is advertising for an actual position rather than selling training (where there intent could most probably be to sell their services) - this is what Fraser Mckenzie, FDM and others seem to be doing. :hhhmmm

    And how do I establish a genuine TP? (like things to look out for etc):hhhmmm
     
  2. dalsoth

    dalsoth Kilobyte Poster

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    I'm sure there are some genuine training providers out there. Never used one but i heard that Firebrand were good by people on another forum. I think though it was more a 21 day bootcamp rather than real training. I have seen a few members on here that have had good experiences with training providers. Have another search and maybe one of them will pop up and give you some tips.

    I would be wary of believing people that suddenly appear to tell you how great a company is and only have a couple of posts on here. There is always the chance they work for the company they are talking about.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCP, MCDST, MCSA, ITIL v3
    WIP: MCITP EA
  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I think your question should be do I really need to fork out loads of cash when I can get the books myself and learn on my own?

    In effect a training provider will give you some books and tell you to read them and they will give you support if you can get through to them or you may have to wait for an email for answers to your questions.

    You could get the books yourself, if you get stuck then you can ask on here for free.

    In the end it depends if you want to payout a lot of money for something that may be good or may be bad either way your stuck in a contract, if you self study then you are not.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Be fair GBL, not all TP's are like that. Most, sure, but not all. It all depends on the TP in question and/or the course you choose with them. Some are classroom based, some are webinars, some are as you say.

    If you choose to go down the TP route, the article you linked is quite helpful. I also wrote this Article which may be of some use in your search (or not).

    TP's do tend to be a lot of money though. Other suggestions (and probably a very good one) is to check your local college to see if they are doing courses. Proper educational establishments tend to be held to higher standards than TPs are generally required to, and they tend to be cheaper for the courses.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  5. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I'm not saying all are bad just that they are all expensive.:D
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. free-advice

    free-advice Nibble Poster

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    The good the bad the ugly.........I could write you an essay on each one.

    Firstly stay well clear of Skillstrain, if I have ever worked for such a shoddy outfit, its them.

    Skillstrain are in the game to mop up the peices and prey on the poorer sole outs there. Their main target are students who can't afford the go with the likes of Computeach etc. They provide photcopied out of date materials and the support isn't too good either.

    When it comes to buying a course, unless you go with Lee's idea od self study, you have to look at certain aspects...........like support.

    There are 3 training providers I would reccommed when it comes to training.

    National IT Learning Centre
    Advent
    Firebrand

    Now they all have their differences, and the salesmen use different techniques to close the deal.

    Firebrand are a bootcamp and are more geared to guys who are already in the industry, have loads of experience and are not afraid of intensive training. The course is not suited to noobs with no IT experince. They are quite a reputable company and have won loads of awards, and I did enjoy working for them.


    National IT Learning Centre These guys were my last company I worked for and they were by far the best in the distance learning aspect. The staff were friendly, support was great and the workshops were very helpful. I still have the odd student I enrolled email me letting me know how they are getting on.

    Advent Again one of the good guys out there. I was with them for around 18 months and never had any issues with the courses I sold and the support that was given. If there was anything I wasn't to keen on was that they used a close of 'you only have 14 days to take the place' I was uncomfortable about saying that as it did put pressure on the student, and if they did come back after 14 days, we would still enrol them. Nevertheless, they were still a good company.

    I would advise people to stay away from the other training providers I have worked for, or atleast go into it with your eyes wide open :eek:

    If you would like more detials on these guys, just PM me and I will help all I can.
     
  7. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    good advice there ^

    BTW have you seen the new skillstrain advert? apparently you can earn 50k if you learn with them:D cough cough bollocks:D
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    I knew I was doing/did something wrong :rolleyes::lol:

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  9. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    yep me too, I think when I get some cash I'll get myself over certified with them and then they'll get me a job. Although that job will probably be a managers job in mcdonalds whilst working a nightshift at KFC as manager for 50k.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  10. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    for 50k, Id be happy to work as a manager on nightshift at KFC. Hell, Id clean the toilets for that amount of money (ive done it for less anyway)
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  11. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    I study with Skillstrain and found the materials fine and the support good when needed. Horses... courses :tune

    The marketing is, of course, utter ****e :biggrin
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  12. free-advice

    free-advice Nibble Poster

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    Hi Arroryn

    I am glad you are enjoying the course.

    My response about Skillstrain is purely what I have heard from students I have enrolled. I would enrol them and I then get the phone call complaining about the material and support. This was non stop and quite embarrising, hence why I left the company and changed my phone number.

    I saw them on Watchdog recently and agreed with what was said.
     
  13. mattstevenson

    mattstevenson Byte Poster

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    I would agree with Dalsoth, in that Firebrand *are* a good training provider. However, the courses definitely are not aimed at people with no experience. You'd never be able to keep up with the rest of the class, and though the instructor will offer you one on one tutoring to try and help, I just can't see it happening in a matter of days anyway.

    Still, as a twice pleased student with them, I'd very highly recommend them. The format their courses are taught in are as follows: You go to a training location for x number of days, get a nice room and food for the duration. You get some books, access to 'library' books, a computer with an Internet connection and plenty of lab hardware. You get Firebrand's own training materials (Powerpoint slides compiled into books, lab manuals etc), you get an excellent instructor who is actually in the trade and probably has been for years, you quite often come out with the qualification you were hoping for.

    They do teach you primarily how to pass exams though, rather than getting into huge detail on every topic.
     
    Certifications: Triple A+. Network+, CCENT
    WIP: MCP, ICND2, Sec+
  14. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    I think the main issue is with their aggressive (and mainly misleading) marketing techniques. That being said, the material is decent and they have completely copped out of providing material at the CCNA level by enrolling you on the Academy program instead :biggrin

    Ah well. Making the best of a signed contract; that being said, I'll get every penny I can back in exam refunds. I'm possibly one of the happier customers they've ever had :rolleyes: :biggrin
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  15. vik11

    vik11 New Member

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    Nice one guys. Loads of info here. Its all began to put things into perspective.

    I'll def look into self study and I found out toaday my local college also provides classes for A+, N+, MS and Cisco certs. I think these 2 options would benefit me more. I'll still look at the distance learning as well though. A cousin of mine in India informed me that the higher level certs like MS and Cisco are taught there as well so maybe later I might think about doing that as I do make regular trips there anyway. It all depends on the factors you guys have mentioned though and whether its worth it overall.
     
  16. Strasner

    Strasner New Member

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    Sorry to necro the thread, but i feel its nesecary.

    Im a recent graduate and am looking to get into the IT world and build a career starting from the bottom up. I have been to an interview with the FDM Academy in london, and have got through to the next stage of the process of getting onto the course (learning and using UNIX and getting tested on it in a 4-day workshop). But i also have got onto the Advent training course for advanced database specalist.

    Weighing up these two courses is tricky, on one hand you have FDM who train you for free and pay you a wage after the 4-month (unpaid and 9-5:30) training period. and ont he other you have Advent who are planning on charging me £5950 to do the course which lasts three years but they pay for all your exams and give training.

    Now my problem is deciding what one to do. There is absolutely no way no me getting enough money to do the advent training scheme without taking out a loan to cover the upfront costs.

    I guess im just asking wether its worth it to get on one or neither of these training schemes at all? and if not then whats the best way of getting into an industry that demands experience to get entry level jobs?
     
    Certifications: None at all
    WIP: Starting A+

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