This is horribly tragic and unfortunately, horribly stupid

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by tripwire45, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Certainly from what I understand, British Police Armed Response Units when confronting an armed suspect shoot to kill not to incapacitate. Mainly because as you say a torso shot is going to be far easier than hitting a limb etc.. and if the person is armed then they could quite easily continue to fire etc... Quite different than a situation in your own home, but in the highly unlikely circumstance that I would be faced with this situation I wouldn't be going for leg or arm shots either.
     
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  2. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    Actually, it's pretty much the same here, too. The "human rights" of the convict seem to outweigh their personal accountability for their crimes. If indeed, the farmer in question shot the intruders while they were running away and especially if he had time to reload and shoot again, it's a different story. However, if an encounter between a person in their home and an intruder gets past the "I've got a gun...get out now, or I'll shoot" stage and I have to pull the trigger, I am *not* going to try and "wing him", especially if I don't know if he is armed. These encounters usually take place in a poorly lit situation and if I were to miss because I was trying for an arm or a leg, the intruder could be all over me. That *last* thing I'd want is for the intruder to be able to take my gun from me and harm me and my family.

    That said, if the intruder took off like a bunny after my warning, I'd count my blessings and call 911 (actually, I'd have probably told the missus to call 911 so they'd be on their way, even during the initial confrontation).
     
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  3. BrotherBill

    BrotherBill Byte Poster

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    Before too many of the members here start to invision Americans as a bunch of "gun totin cowboys or hillbillies", I'd like to comment as a gun owner myself.

    The "right" to bear arms in the US is not a "God-given" right. It is promised to the citizens of the US in a formal document known as the "Bill of Rights". Thus the coining of the term "right" to bear arms. Frankly, I like the term "priviledge" better as well.

    The laws for acquiring firearms in Missouri are pretty much the same throughout the states. You purchase your firearm from a legitimate firearms dealer, proper identification must be provided and a Federal background check is initiated. Usually takes 3 days. If your background check doesn't send up any red flags, crimnal activities or mental issues, sorry but stupid doesn't count, you return to the dealer and pick up your gun. A pretty simple process and since 9/11, it has assured that any firearms legally purchased through a dealer are accounted for.

    Then there are ways of obtaining firearms that don't meet the standards and guidelines required by law. Black markets for firearms exist in almost every country on the globe. If a criminal wants a gun bad enough, they'll find one. Either by stealing it, buying it from some scumbag on the corner looking to buy their next fix, or from an illegal arms dealer.

    The town of Deep Water, Missouri is a small rural community in a part of the country that was basically founded on hunting, trapping, and lumber. Firearms have been bought, sold, and traded in many of these communities without a paper trail since pioneer days. While this makes it virtually impossible to keep track of firearms, these transactions aren't meant as a defiance to any laws or the security of the region. It's just the way of life over the years.

    When you live in communities like this, you get to know just about everyone around on a first name basis. I'm sure that if the local authorities thought any malice was intended or there were issues with the man, they would have acted accordingly. Basically, it was as Trip said, a really, really stupid mistake. It's a shame that it cost his wife her life, but sending this man to jail will serve no purpose. He's going to be reminded of this every Mother's Day, every Birthday, Christmas, and maybe every time the sun sets a certain color, or the flowers come up in Spring.

    I am a gun owner and hunter. I grew up around firearms. I like to think I'm somewhat responsible with my firearms. I've never accidentally shot anyone and I've never had a firearm discharge unexpectedly. I don't use my guns for hammers or drills. Frankly, when it comes to protection, it would probably take me too long to get the gun out, load it, then take out after an intruder. You want a deterent? Get a dog. Criminals don't like the noise and the kids will enjoy it a lot more.
     
  4. BosonMichael
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    But if laws are passed that prevent that from happening, I can't legally carry one. If/when guns are made illegal, only those who have a disregard for the law will have guns (unless it becomes less of a risk to be caught by the police with a gun than it is to not have a gun to defend yourself).

    Again, I don't have anything against making it more difficult to get a gun - waiting periods, background checks, whatever it takes. After all, I cannot envision a situation where I couldn't wait a few days to get a gun... as an average guy who doesn't have a desire to go hunting for game, how many could I possibly need? :blink I'd buy one... perhaps two (for a spare)... and that's all I'd EVER need for defense. So what if I have to wait a week?

    That's cool - nobody says you have to get one. I feel it makes me safer. As long as me having a gun doesn't make you feel unsafe, you shouldn't be against it. And, as you said, you're not... you just don't want some nutter being able to get one.

    Thinking back... I have been in a few situations where having a gun for protection (on my person, not in my house) might have been helpful. But most of them were over 20 years ago. I haven't felt the need to carry one on my person for years... and even way back then, I didn't feel like I needed one bad enough to actually go out and buy one.

    Might there be a situation in the future where I would need one? It's entirely possible.
     
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  5. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    You are correct. If they're not standing still, I'm aiming for center-mass.

    My kneecap comment was for humor... though, if they're standing still, I'd aim at a non-vital part of the body.

    They really need to practice more. :blink

    I'd recommend FPSs. 8) hah! (another joke)

    Actually, they might not. There are situations in which your target will be still or moving slowly.

    If my wife is not where she's supposed to be, I'm not gonna whip out a gun when I hear a noise. :rolleyes:

    Agreed. I'd not shoot anyone in the back unless he were carrying away the nuclear missile launch codes...

    ...er...

    crap, you guys weren't supposed to know about those. :oops:
     
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  6. Rob1234

    Rob1234 Megabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    This would be an intresting topic if it had not all been discussed before, but most of you use this forum alot and shoudl know by now you are all wrong and BM is always right. Let that be an end to the topic.
     
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  7. BosonMichael
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    Criminals are probably too scared that my Australian Shepherd Mix would lick them to death. :p
     
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  8. BosonMichael
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    You probably ought to read the forum rules again regarding personal attacks, mate. :dry
     
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  9. Cockles

    Cockles Megabyte Poster

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    BM, take my comments with a bit more of a pinch of salt mate, being serious is not something I tend to do often

    Of course I ain't gonna go wife-blasting (unless the money's right, of course), my point being, all the bravado about guns etc, chances are when it comes to it, your average untrained joe will hear a noise, grab the gun, crap their pants, and fire blindly. Humans do funny things when stressed. I was joking. I am also aware that people don't move all the time too, I stay still for prolonged periods of time too most days, for about 6-8 hours or so, it tends to go dark during those periods too :)

    I can't wait to see what the next topic of debate will be
     
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  10. Rob1234

    Rob1234 Megabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    I am sorry mate you are right.
     
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  11. BosonMichael
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    To be fair, you are correct - most people probably would fire blindly in a panic situation. :)
     
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  12. BosonMichael
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    Always? 8)

    Just kidding. :)
     
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  13. ThomasMc

    ThomasMc Gigabyte Poster

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    so let me get this straight(sorry if you feel this question is a little lame), you can kill someone in your house if they break into it?
     
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  14. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I think it depends on the state the level of force you can exert, you have to proove self defense in a lot of instances to my knowledge, but there are still states that say if they are on your property, you can shoot em, how often that sticks in court is debatable though, I think a measure of common sense is still required in any instance
     
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  15. BosonMichael
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    Exactly.

    Current Tennessee law allows residents to use deadly force against someone who breaks into their homes, even without the threat of death or serious injury; there's a legal presumption that an intruder intends to cause occupants harm.

    Tennessee law also allows someone to use deadly force to prevent death or serious injury to yourself or a third party. However, if you do so, you had better be ab-so-lute-ly sure who you are pulling the trigger against... you might just be shooting an undercover officer who is aiming his weapon at a criminal.

    You cannot use deadly force to protect property, such as if someone is stealing your car and you're not in it - if you're not in the car, they're not a threat. Bills have been introduced in Tennessee in 2007 to allow deadly force in carjacking situations, but I am unsure if those bills were ever signed into law.

    You cannot use deadly force to stop a fleeing criminal. If they're fleeing, they're not a threat.

    You are responsible for "missed shots". If you shoot and miss an attacker, and you accidentally hit someone else, then you're responsible.

    None of that stops a criminal (or his estate) from suing you in civil court, and you will have to pay the cost for your legal defense. That said... it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

    Pulled/reworded/copied a lot of this info from here - good info!
     
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  16. ThomasMc

    ThomasMc Gigabyte Poster

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    man thats whack, and may even explain why your average house robber has a gun on his person(because your might have one). I will stck to my mini baseball bat and a sonic alarm
     
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  17. BosonMichael
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    I thought you had a kitten with a rifle? :blink
     
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  18. ThomasMc

    ThomasMc Gigabyte Poster

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    lol nah that just a deterrent(just giving people the impression i have a kitten with a rifle :p) microsoft killed my kitten already :(
     
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  19. BosonMichael
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    Ah, you turned off UAC, eh? :p

    A deterrent is all you need... isn't that what I've been sayin'? :wink:
     
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  20. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    Well...there's always this:
    [​IMG]
     
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