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The real aftermath of

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by ffreeloader, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    MS's corruption of the ISO standards process is only now beginning to really be felt. Many people said that all the new registrations, and upgrading of membership to make their votes have more effect, of countries in the ISO process was related to MS wanting to "stack-the-deck" so to speak in favor of OpenOfficeXML. Well, take a look at what is happening to the ISO now. This is a very serious problem as now NO standards can be approved because not enough countries are voting on anything, despite pleas to get them to do so.

    This quote is taken from www.consortiuminfo.org.

    The rest of this article can be read here.

    It's time for MS to go away. They are doing too much damage with all their bs tactics. There is no excuse for indulging in this type of behavior.
     
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  2. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The Force against Microsoft is strong in this one. [​IMG]
     
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  3. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Do you find MS's behavior in this subject matter acceptable? If so explain why. Do you find an article like this newsworthy? If not, why not?

    To tell the truth, I can't believe everyone isn't really angry over this. The ISO is extremely important, and yet they have been stopped in their tracks. That's not only in IT related stuff, that's in airline safety, automobile safety, electrical safety, in everything for which they certify standards. All ISO standards work is now unable to move forward. The ISO is paralyzed completely, and the responsibility for this lies directly at MS's door.

    That's not just a shrug-your-shoulders type of consequence. The major standards body has been made irrelevant.
     
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  4. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    To be honest, I have no opinion on it. It really doesn't affect me. I merely mean to say that the old Freddy is out-and-about and active today! :biggrin
     
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  5. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Yep

    Because Microsoft are the first enormous multi-national corporation to abuse a standards body for their own ends.

    For ***** sake, this goes on in EVERY industry. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

    It isn't new, it's not germane only to IT and it will continue to happen - without a damn thing anyone can do about it.

    I am sick to death of people just bashing Microsoft all the time without looking at the larger picture. Yes, many of their business practices are questionable at best - bordering on and occasionally straying into downright unethical. So are the business practices of every large engineering firm, every arms manufacturer, every company in Big Pharma (and Big Agro, Big Chem and other Big 'Insert-Abbreviated-Suffix-To-Denote-Random-Globalised-Industry-Here), every fast food retalier, every major supermarket chain and every multi-national legal firm.

    The pharmaceutical industry in particular is absolutely 100% rotten to its very core.

    Why on Earth does everyone want to continue to make an issue out of MS? It baffles me! I would rather not worry as much about a company using questionable tactics to interfere with a standards body (which is universally known for dragging its bloody feet on so many aspects of a new standard that the 'standard' they emerge with is inevitably two years out of date by the time its agreed anyway) than about a pharmaceutical giant engaging in drug dumping, or an arms company based in MY country selling fighter aircraft used by a brutal regime to repress its citizens for obscene profits, or a supermarket that bribes local councils into basically paying for a new superstore to be built with the promise of jobs that never materialise, to the detriment of all local businesses and citizens... The list is endless.

    I'm not necessarily saying that anyone should be as interested in these issues as myself. Simply that there needs to be a balance struck between moaning about Microsoft and moaning about every other company that feathers its own nest by exploiting others.
     
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  6. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Got to agree with Zeb on this one really. I skimmed the quote and decided not to bother looking at the website it came from becuase I made an automatic assumption they had a similar anti-MS agenda to yourself Freddy.

    If I see a post started by you Freddy, I assume it's going to be some type of anti-MS rant and most of the time that does seem to be the case. No offence is intended by that by the way and I actuall agree with some of the things you have to say. It's just that the endless MS bashing it getting old ...
     
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  7. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    MS fault? not this is the fault of the ISO body itself and its structure
    if it has non voting members causing problems those members should be removed, or have thier influence downgraded

    by the sounds of it, members upgraded to principle membership at the last minute? I assume that was some for of financial upgrade that nets them that higher status? (otherwise how would new and un involved members qualify for such a position just because MS was asking them for it)

    Once they are removed/downgraded, the process can continue exactly as it did before

    this is not the fault of MS, this is the fault of the ISO

    I could understand your position if say, all the usual voting members had stopped voting as they had felt the system was open to abuse and not worth it
    but that's NOT what's happened, what's happened is there are now too many disinterested members not getting involved because they signed up for one thing!
     
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  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    As a consumer, I just look at what is of actual use to me.

    I want a supplier of software to meet my business needs.

    Do I need a comittee to debate ISO standards and drink coffee?

    Not that I'm aware of.
     
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  9. noelg24

    noelg24 Terabyte Poster

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    I have to agree with Modey and Zeb. You always seem to be against MS about anything and everything. However, after reading the qoute in this post. I have to be honest, it went right over my head. I seriously dont see how this affects me in anyway, shape or form. And as Modey also said, the endless MS bashing has got to stop. Yes, we know that MS can behave bad at times...but it seems you are the only person who rants about them. I am not saying ur not entitled to your opinions...just try to minimise it. Please do not take offence. Thank you.
     
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  10. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Guys,

    The ISO standards affects almost every facet of your life. Do you know why you can go down to the local hardware store and buy a nut, bolt, or screw by a certain description and KNOW what you are getting? Because of standards. If there were not standards that must be met, then the nut produced by one company wouldn't work on the bolt produced by another company. Can you imagine how something that simple could affect your life? If it didn't exist Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc... could all manufacture every nut, bolt, and screw that holds their cars together by their own standards, and you would be held hostage to their pricing. You couldn't just go anywhere and buy one. You would have to go them to buy it.

    Do you know why a manufacturer can proudly advertise their products reach a certain level of quality? Because of standards. That's very good for business, and profits.

    Do you know why you can buy a quart of oil for your car and know that it will not contain dirt or metal filings, and is designed to meet specifications? Because of standards.

    Standards organizations play a very significant part in your lives. They assure you that if the company you work for manufactures products that meet the ISO standards set up you can sell them world wide, and that people can buy them with confidence knowing they will work.

    Without standards there would be no interoperability in anything. Everyone would design to their own criteria, and the consumer would be lost in a world of extremely confusing options, and mismatched parts and pieces from everywhere.

    When you go down town and buy a fire extinguisher how do you know it will work as it says it will? Because of standards. If you buy a gas furnace to heat to heat your house how do you know it is designed so that it isn't going to blow up on you? Because of standards.

    Standards play a very important role in your everyday lives.

    As to what MS did with the ISO standards committee, well, the ISO has been in existence full time since 1946. In all that time no company has ever tried to game the system the way MS did. That's right, in more than 61 years with all the 10s of 1,000s of corporations that have existed during this time world wide, this has never happened before. No corporation has ever done what MS did. It's completely unprecedented. Why? Because everyone but MS has recognized that apolitical standards are good thing, that they benefit everyone. MS alone has tried to play this game. That's a level of corruption that no one else has ever sunk to.
     
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  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I do agree with you in that context ff.

    An A4 sheet of paper should be the same size no matter where I buy it.

    What I don't necessarily agree with are standards imposed where they aren't really necessary.
    It's just more paperwork and nonsense.

    The world has gone mad, and we could be faced with a committee to create a standard of how strong a cup of coffee should be.

    I agree with the guys though - that this doesn't necessarily have to be an anti-Microsoft thing.
    I'm sure that if you take the time to look at Apple, IBM, Intel, Cadbury's, General Motors, whoever - you will uncover a den of corporate muscle and manipulation.

    It isn't Microsoft's exclusive realm (although they would have claimed it as their patent if they could)

    :blink
     
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  12. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I agree with Freddy here, why none of you see the importance of the ISO body is beyond me
    what's happening IS important, it IS an issue, and it could hold up a few important things being worked on

    that said
    I stand by what I said earlier, this problem has been caused by the implementation of the ISO voting system, and its just never come to light as its never been tested, there was, as stated, no precedent for it
    MS just helped highlight that, which whatever their tactic was is not the point, the point is a fundamental problem has been identified in the way votes are handled with inactive members
     
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  13. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Johnny,

    I have never, ever, claimed that MS is the ONLY corporation to use dishonest methods. However, this example of behavior from MS is one that no one has ever sunk to before. MS tried to buy a standard approval for an implementation for which they are the ONLY entity in the world which can meet the standard. That's just not right, and it was rightfully defeated. It's just that MS didn't care what the consequences of their actions would be. All they cared about was getting approval for something only they can implement. That's antithetical to the entire standards process.

    A standard is open. It's made so that everyone can see every aspect of it, and can implement it faithfully if they want to have their product certified by the standards body. That's something that OOXML can never lay claim to.
     
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  14. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    No mate.
    That's fair enough.
    As this is a technical forum, obviously technical stuff is at the fore front.

    Don't get me started on 'fair trade'.

    I am very familiar with Microsoft - and deal with them on an everyday basis.
    But what I want, is for my business to be productive.

    I'm not looking to be a modern day Robin Hood.

    8)
     
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  15. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    You know what? As much as I am against government intrusion, I'm almost in favor of this one. Did you realize that the amount of caffeine in a product can vary by around 10 times from product to product and vendor to vendor? That means a person can go buy a latte/caffeinated drink from vendor and get used to a certain level of caffeine in the blood. Then they go get a different "pick-me-up" from another vendor, and can get 10 times the amount of caffeine in one drink. That's enough to come close to reaching the level of caffeine toxicity for the human body from one drink.

    That is actually a fairly serious health issue. Fortunately the only people who usually get bit by this are those who would otherwise find another means to make the Darwin Awards website through their stupidity. But, it still is a legit health issue for a lot of people and it has been brought about by technology. Thirty or forty years ago situations like this were unknown.
     
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  16. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Mine's always too weak!

    (Hope you're reading this Boyce!)
     
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