1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tables or Frames?

Discussion in 'CIW Certifications' started by IThurts, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

    284
    2
    32
    Hi again,

    I am slowly learning HTML- i know i am at my very first steps, but finding it quite managable, just need to go over things a couple times to make em stick!
    I have made 1separate page that consits of frames stated below. And basically links that when clicked the said (seperate) page is targeted/opens at/in the main frame.. basically 2 columns one @ 10% screen size for the links and the other at 90%.
    So basically all my links are targeted to open in the "main page", the only prob with this is that the <title> does not change when the page changes...if you follow?

    I then read that tables are most commonly used for webpages. Why is that? More managable with images etc?

    So should i be using tables instead of frames for my webpage layout is my question basically.:oops:

    Also- sorry if this thread is in the wrong place, couldnt figure whre else to put it!!
     
    Certifications: BTEC national Diploma Computer Studies
    WIP: See Sig
  2. delorean

    delorean Megabyte Poster

    959
    15
    64
    Use neither. Nowadays most websites ditch tables, using a combination of divs and css. CSS is one of the key things to get to grips with for pin-point page design. Frames were made extinct about 8 years ago or more now and in my view only the close relative that is the iframe is still relevant today, and even then only in minor doses.

    Tables can still be used, obviously for tabular data etc. As a go-to solely for page layout I would try to avoid it if you can and go via the route of divs/css. It's a little trickier but is certainly the way to go with today's website design.
     
    Certifications: A+, MCP 70-270, 70-290, 70-291
    WIP: 70-680, S+, MCSA, MCSE, CCNA
  3. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    You should only use tables for tabular information and frames make me crazy. As has already been suggested, learn CSS and use it for all your styling needs. I know it's easier said than done, but it'll ultimately make your life a lot easier. Get a couple of good books on CSS and HTML and learn how to create sites using them together.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  4. Alex Wright

    Alex Wright Megabyte Poster

    501
    9
    57
    I agree with the said comments, but if you are going to choose between the two then I'd advise you use tables as the content in frames isn't picked up by search engines such as Google, Yahoo and AltaVista.
     
    Certifications: 70-680 Configuring Windows 7
    WIP: 70-642
  5. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    4,196
    171
    211
    see, I disagree slightly. perhaps im old school, but frames give a decent advantage. If you have a section of the page which loads every single time (such as the nav menu), it reduces load times by only loading it once for the site.

    Maybe its not so necessary these days, what with Broadband, etc, but I always like to reduce load times on anything i program.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  6. Alex Wright

    Alex Wright Megabyte Poster

    501
    9
    57
    Indeed - but what's the point in having a page that loads quickly if it isn't found by the aforementioned search engines?
     
    Certifications: 70-680 Configuring Windows 7
    WIP: 70-642
  7. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    4,196
    171
    211
    Framed pages can still be found by search engines. Spiders dont just follow a trail of links, they root around in the directories too. Hence why, if you dont want a particular area of your site listed, you can use files targeted at the spiders to tell them which areas not to search.

    If you are clever about it too, you can even have the framed load when a direct link to the page is used.

    This is a good start
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  8. ThomasMc

    ThomasMc Gigabyte Poster

    1,507
    49
    111
    Another no vote for frames, Link
     
    Certifications: MCDST|FtOCC
    WIP: MCSA(70-270|70-290|70-291)
  9. Alex Wright

    Alex Wright Megabyte Poster

    501
    9
    57
    Really? The developers at my work told me otherwise, only the other day? :eek:
     
    Certifications: 70-680 Configuring Windows 7
    WIP: 70-642
  10. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Source..

    http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=34445&query=frames&topic=&type=
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  11. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    4,196
    171
    211
    Both the link I provided, and Bluerinse's link from google confirm the case. They dont necessarily like frames, and its true that some engines arent capable of dealing with frames, but they can still be dealt with.

    It may just be one of those things thats passed into legend in a company. A policy among the developers was made to not do it because it could cause some problems, and over time that has evolved in the minds of the developers that its not done because the cant deal with frames.
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  12. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

    3,282
    73
    152
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  13. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Meh, I don't like frames much. Makes it difficult to see what page you're on if the address doesn't change in the address bar... royal pain in the butt, sometimes.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  14. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

    284
    2
    32
    Ok thanks for the replies.
    Two questions i would like clarification on if you would please:

    1)Would i be right in saying that in order to create different "sections" of a webpage using CSS, ie; its links section on the left and the main content in the middle, i would have to use <DIV> tags (blocked elements) in order to seperate the two.

    2)The last time i did websites/webpages, tables were used for this, so CSS is very new to me. I would use the tables to seperate the different sections of a page. As i understand it from this thread and other sources, CSS are used to create a page layout and its various sections, which pose great advantages. ie; the ability to use external style sheets to edit your style and apply/link this .css page to your html pages to change the layout in its entirety.

    Thanks alot for the help in advance and please keep the answers in "dummy" terms please :)
     
    Certifications: BTEC national Diploma Computer Studies
    WIP: See Sig
  15. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

    284
    2
    32
    I know ya'll are very busy but....bump:oops:
     
    Certifications: BTEC national Diploma Computer Studies
    WIP: See Sig
  16. Alex Wright

    Alex Wright Megabyte Poster

    501
    9
    57
    Certifications: 70-680 Configuring Windows 7
    WIP: 70-642
  17. BrotherBill

    BrotherBill Byte Poster

    228
    24
    15
  18. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

    4,196
    171
    211
    oops, corrected
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  19. Alex Wright

    Alex Wright Megabyte Poster

    501
    9
    57
    Yes, that seems like a distinct possibility. :)

    Thanks Mitzs! :)

    It would certainly bare that interpretation!

    Ahhh!

    It's unanimous!
     
    Certifications: 70-680 Configuring Windows 7
    WIP: 70-642
  20. IThurts

    IThurts Kilobyte Poster

    284
    2
    32
    Sorry to be a party pooper in re to search engine optimisations but could someone help me with the question i originally asked (most recent post from myself).

    Thanks,
     
    Certifications: BTEC national Diploma Computer Studies
    WIP: See Sig

Share This Page

Loading...