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synergy????

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by bobby24london, May 26, 2009.

  1. bobby24london

    bobby24london Bit Poster

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    anyone heard of this training group there based in west london?? are they any good
     
  2. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    USe the search feature to see if there are any threads about them. Ask yourself one question though, do you really need a training provider?

    Quite a lot of people on here self study by just getting the books and practicing themselves then they take the exams when they are ready. It's much cheaper and can be done at your own pace.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  3. DaveyB1981

    DaveyB1981 Byte Poster

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    Can't really offer anything about the provider, but agree with the comments above. The question you need to ask is is a provider actually needed. There are a lot of good materials around (are you still talking about MCDST?) and you can learn in a variety of way, more cheaply and at your own pace. I personally attended the Microsoft courses for MCDST and to tell you the truth got very little out of them. It wasnt until I got into self study that i passed the exam.

    Have a look at some threads on here and give it some thought. It's down to what suits you at the end of the day.

    Dave
     
    Certifications: CISMP, ITIL Fdn, MCDST
    WIP: the day job...
  4. bobby24london

    bobby24london Bit Poster

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    yeah its both the comptia a+ and n+, MCDST and possibly the vista/xp course, they shouldnt cost more than £1500, classroom based not sure how long for mind you but they have a "deal" with BT so once ive completed training or even coming to the end of training i will have a good chance of getting either some work experience or even a job:D
     
  5. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    take any job garuntees with a very big pinch of salt.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  6. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Bobby

    You really need to get out of the mindset of using a Training Provider. If I recall you come from a trade background (scaffolding?) - is that right?

    If so, I can fully understand you equating getting into an industry with obtaining a certificate - the trades have NVQs that allow you to get certified then look for work - but it simply isn't like that in IT for many reasons - two of the main ones are highlighted below.

    Firstly, there are thousands of people out there with certificates you'll eventually be aiming towards (MCSE, CCNP etc). Sadly, most of the people with these certifications know sod all about IT and cheated their way to achieving them. This has had the twin effect of rendering the certs useless as a yardstick to measure people's abilities by, and creating a massive number of people who are ridiculously overqualified for first line support jobs.

    Secondly, this has had an enormous knock-on effect on the IT industry as a whole. For every position you go for with your A+/MCDST, there will be 200 other people applying with an MCSE, who have CVs that state they have five years' experience (which will either be an out and out lie, or will be at twenty different companies as an (ahem) 'contractor' - i.e. they worked there for three months before someone figured out they didn't have a Danny what they were talking about and gave them the pump). This means people employing IT staff will have been burned on a regular basis, be nervous about who they hire, and take experience as a much better indicator of competence than a piece of paper - making your certs practically worthless.

    What you need to do - now - before you even think about shelling out for an expensive training course that will give you no tangible benefits until you're already IN the industry - is to start looking for entry-level positions right away. Sadly, this will probably involve you working first-line in a call centre (and will be a considerable drop in wages after you working as a contractor), but it WILL give you the experience you need to start looking at getting a 'proper' IT job.

    Above all else, DON'T get a Career Development Loan, or pay two grand to a Training provider. If you genuinely have some money to spend, use it to buy a couple of old PCs, some books and teach yourself at home. Any decent A+ & MCDST study guide will have exercises for you to follow that will be almost identical to the ones you'd pay the best part of two grand for from a Training Provider - plus you can work at your own pace, and fit your studying in around work.

    HTH
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  7. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    extremely well put Zeb :D
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  8. bobby24london

    bobby24london Bit Poster

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    hi mate yeah the only reason i want classroom study is because im very irresponsible and have a low concentration level ( silly i know ) i have been talked out of doing a " higher cert " by everyone on here so ill start with A+, N+ and MCDST that should get me a start or at least some work experiance which would be benificial, and yeah im a scaffolder and your right about the money side of it, currently im working 6/7 days a week and clearing 7/8/900 a week. but after 4/5 years in IT who knows mate, thanks for detailed reply fella really appreciate it, bobby:D:D
     
  9. DaveyB1981

    DaveyB1981 Byte Poster

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    Dont mean to sound harsh, but if this is the case, are you really sure IT is the right path for you?

    Dave
     
    Certifications: CISMP, ITIL Fdn, MCDST
    WIP: the day job...
  10. bobby24london

    bobby24london Bit Poster

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    hi mate unfortunatly i have no choice, i done my ankle 2 yrs ago ( exact injury that arsenal player eduardo had ) dr says i shouldnt be working now with it, had 3 operations on it already may need another one in november, im only 24 and it aches now in 5/10 yrs ill be in agony, so im doing the sensible thing before its to late, ps... who knows one day i might be a TRUE CCNP/ MCSE engineer or similar they dont do too badly, thanks tho for being up front mate def appreciate it, bobby:D:D
     
  11. Rheinkraft

    Rheinkraft Bit Poster

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    I have just read what you said Zeb and it worries me a little.....

    I totally understand that there is alot of people in the industry with just certificates and no experience but its like that in a few jobs (not IT) that I have done over the years.

    Would you say that the IT market for work is flooded with people trying to get jobs? Is it really worth me doing the comp a+ certificate if this is the case? I would like to start a job low level in IT but a call centre would not cover the bills :(

    If the industry is really tough to get in then could you offer a little more advice on where to start?


    Cheers

    Rhein
     
  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    IT is one the hardest industries to get into because of what has been said.

    Before the .com bubble burst IT had people in it because they loved computers etc then lots of people started seeing that there was big money in IT and people started to cheat their way in so certs got devalued and eventually wages dropped too.

    As to your question, yes getting the A+ will be beneficial providing you are looking at the correct level of jobs like trainee and entry level positions. Having certs will make you look more attractice to an employer than someone who doesn't have it.

    There was a guy who worked at my place who had cheated his way to get the MCSE he soon got fired after making quite a lot of cockups including leaving the backup tapes in a box in the corridor where they were thrown out by the cleaners. These tapes had confidential pieces of data on them.

    These people who cheat eventually get found out but as a result it makes it harder for us honest people to get ahead.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Unfortunately there's not much more advice I can give you. If you want to see what the job market is like at the moment, start looking at some of the vacancies on offer. Pretty much every 'real' IT vacancy at entry level (i.e. those that don't just want someone answering a phone and reading from a script) will have hundreds of people applying for it - most of these applicants will have paper MCSEs so, unless you get a recruitment consultant that knows what they're looking for, you'll have zero chance of getting even an interview because most recruitment bods will just sift your CV out as there are 'better qualified' candidates.

    Sadly, it means that people looking to get a foot in the door now have to be either extremely lucky, or go through the purgatory of a call centre. This wasn't the case a few years back, but the situation has now got so bad that I told my cousin last week to look at doing something other than IT as a career (he's fifteen and thinking about what to do when he leaves college)

    I know its not what you want to hear - but working in a call centre is your best bet - at least you can then 'embellish' your CV by playing up any IT aspects of your job whilst using your non-working time to learn.

    I believe the market for graduate-level entry positions is even worse - so its not even worth getting a higher education level (degree, HND etc) and trying to get your foot in that way. One thing you definitely, definitely should not do is pay for one of these 'get your MCSE in x months' courses - the only way you'll achieve these without any prior experience is through cheating - which would just leave you int eh same boat as the thousands of other poor sods who fell for Training provider bull****.

    Sorry to make such a grim post :(
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  14. jamessimo

    jamessimo Banned

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    I know the guys that work at Synergy they are good guys. I worked in IT mnay moons ago when I was 21 I never knew what I really wanted to doo. I had taken so many career paths, recruitment etc.
    I finally realised at the end of 2007 that IT was the place for me I did My DST and passed. I got a helpdesk Job, and I am now part of the network team (right place, right time). I am CCNA qualified

    I did shell out for a course for the mcdst up in Oxford. I think back to it, and realise I never really needed it. It was 2 grand out of my own money. The best way is self study.

    If you are going into IT dont go and shell money out on lots of certs, get the certs as and when it moves in stride with your career path.

    Simply self study use nuggets, have a computer with the xp operating system. Practice and play about with. Then in the mean time apply for IT jobs. You will have to be very patient :D
     
    Certifications: MCP,MCDST,MCTS,CCNA,CCNAV
    WIP: ccnp,ccvp,ccdp.ccip
  15. Rheinkraft

    Rheinkraft Bit Poster

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    Ok Zeb, I have taken note of what you said. Its incredibly sad that the IT industry is like this now, your not the first post I have read recently pretty much saying the same thing :(

    I will no way pay todo the A+ certificate now especially after reading this forum, but I will self study and get the A+ for my own piece of mind.

    Before I bacame an aborist I worked voluntry for three months with a tree surgery firm and at the end I was offerd a full time job with another company just for showing the comitment.
    I hope that if I can find a IT company that will allow me todo a few hour voluntry work with them on a weekly basis (after my day job) and show that i am comited then maybe the luck I had before may find me again.

    I have been using computers for over 10 years now (as a hobbie) and I think its time that I made something of it!

    I know its a small chance, but with abit of comitment I think it could be possible.

    Thanks for the reply Zeb, its made me realise that this will NOT be easy if at all possible.

    Rheinkraft
     
  16. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Definitely it’s possible, and it’s not complete luck. By doing volunteer work you’re making your own “luck” by adding ‘real’ experience. It doesn’t matter whether you’re paid or not (from an experience standpoint).
     
  17. VantageIsle

    VantageIsle Kilobyte Poster

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    Some excellent points raised by Zeb.

    My two cents.

    Getting into IT is hard work and you will have to work hard once you have landed that first line job.

    It is not impossible to land that first IT job, I have made that leap (nearly two years ago now) and yes I had a manual job before and I never went to university, keep your CV honest and bullsh1t free and someone will give you a chance.

    Working on an entry level cert whilst your seeking employment shows willing, and if you have the self discipline to self study that also looks good.

    I have since learnt from my experienced peers that there is a lot of very well spoken fakers out there, yes they have an MCSE or whatever but they don't give a toss and know just enough to get by, for years these guys float from six month contract to six month contract messing up infrastructures a lot of IT managers are getting wise to these guys, this is why the company I work at decided to grow their own techs (well two of them) ... you have to be much better than the floaters!

    Be warned It is hard work, interesting, but hard work you will have new problems to fix every week (never a dull moment)

    I think Its a popular misconception that IT is a cushy number, and that the job can be learnt in a few months with huge cash prizes!

    Perhaps it was at some point, but if it was, those days are long gone.

    So, it is possible to land that first IT job but don't expect an easy ride.

    Don't waste money on Training companys who will tell you to read books you can buy from amazon or from car boot sales for a fraction of the price.

    It will be you who has to put the work in!
     
    Certifications: A+, ITIL V3, MCSA, MCITP:EST, CCENT, 70-432-SQL, 70-401 SCCM
    WIP: MCSA upgrade MCITP:SA then EA
  18. Elhaj

    Elhaj Nibble Poster

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    Hi guys,

    I agree with Zeb, he sounds harsh but im sure he is a pro and talking sense.
    I too had a hobby of computers, and decided to make a career out of it even though qualified in something rather different(economics) but my passion is for IT.
    I have been thinking of class based training and contacted lots of providers but their fee scares the hell out of me from £5k MCSE (guaranteed C***) to £1500 for MCDST with synergy, and I was tempted to go for synergy but unfortunately just before join in I became unemployed and no longer afford the money for training( they assured me of taking a career loan would help). So I decided to go for self study, used some books I bought before for MCSE :biggrin to prepare my 70-271 and also signed on to MS learning academy for small fee, and Im half way there, got first MCP and working towards the second one. I think to start from scratch knowing you will get there one day better than to buy a piece of paper with Gates signature on that will fade one day or another.
    I used to work in a software company and still have friends from IT departments who share the same ideas discussed in this thread, also about the situation of IT job market these days where you can find recruiters asking for an MCSE to do first line support and install desktops, dont blame them since some fake MCSE holders should be doing exactly just that.

    Im glad to be part of CF, found lots of help here.:D
    cheers
     
    Certifications: Bsc Economics, MCDST
    WIP: what's the point?

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