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Some training

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Lanky, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. Lanky

    Lanky New Member

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    Morning all,

    I'm looking for some training but I'll start from the start.
    Basically I was training as a quantity surveyor up until November last year when I was made redundant. I currently have a steady income but no real job prospects. I'm 20 and I've been looking in to some IT training. I've been speaking to Advent, but obviously the only person I've spoken to there is a sales person so I was hoping to check some stuff on here.

    From reading some threads on here I've noticed that some people seem to be against these home training providers although some claim that if you see it all the way through its worth it.

    Well the course I would like to do is "Advanced Database Specialist"

    This would be working through these certs:

    CompTIA A+
    MCP
    MCDST
    MCSA
    MCSE
    MCTS SQL Server 2005
    MCITP

    I've done some research in to these and they appear to be worth while and what companies look for..

    One question is relating to the fact that I don't have a degree, is this essential to get a good job or would these qualifications and gaining experience over time be enough?

    Regarding jobs the claim that within 6 months I could be working in IT support, does this sound realistic? They also claim it would be £16,000 - £18,000.

    They have put a target salary of £30,000 - £40,000 in 2 years which I think seems insane,would anyone be able to hesitate a more realistic one. I live in Cambridgeshire if that has much affect on things.

    One thing that did concern me was that they never asked what qualifications I've got. How can they say what job I could get when as far as they know I could have no GCSE's?

    With financing this they said there are two options one where I pay monthly from the start, 3 years intrest free, which would be tight until I got the first job in IT. Or wait a year then pay of over 4 years with interest does anyone know if there are any more options they just didn't mention?

    Thanks for any help or advice you can give me.
     
  2. mattstevenson

    mattstevenson Byte Poster

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    I'll be honest with you, I think they're building your hopes way too high. A realistic target salary after 2 years in the industry would be more between 10-20k in our area (East Midlands). Or that's where I'd estimate it. Probably at the higher end of that after two years.

    I think that you could probably take a much better route in this. Get yourself an entry level cert, an entry level job, and build your knowledge from there. Go whichever way the experience takes you. You'll probably find that your interests in IT change somewhat after you've seen some of the other areas - networking, server administration etc.

    Also, I would suggest that you don't look any further in the future than the very first certification on that list - The CompTIA A+. Until you've got that, with your current lack of experience, it's pointless to even hope at anything else on that list. I think that you'd find that self studying for the A+ certification will be an eye opener, and hopefully a thoroughly enlightening and enjoyable experience. Of course, if you find that you hate it, you know you're probably not suited for an IT job. Also, you can self study for a fraction of the price of Advent's training offerings, and you can go at your own pace. The expert help and advice they offer could be easily substituted with the knowledge of the guys here at CF.

    I'm probably waffling now. But one thing you should definitely take away from this mini-lecture is that you need to look at more options, and probably need to clear your mind of the false hope that Advent have instilled in you, because as you have rightly acknowledged, they are just sales people.

    Hope this helps!

    Matt.
     
    Certifications: Triple A+. Network+, CCENT
    WIP: MCP, ICND2, Sec+
  3. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Also, if you search around you'll find that being over-certified is just as bad as having nothing.

    Can't say more than to quote MS (their certs after all) :

    Candidate profile

    Candidates for the MCSE on Windows Server 2003 certification typically have at least one year of experience implementing and administering both network and client operating systems. They are knowledgeable about the planning, design, and implementation of Microsoft Windows server solutions and architectures in mid-sized to large companies.


    Employers will not want you without the experience as they can't take the chance on you screwing up their systems and costing the company a lot of money.

    Start with the basics only - A+, N+. Then try to get a first line support job (or similar) and then move onto things like MCSE and specialisms
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  4. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I agree with the others, they are building your hopes up.

    A salary of 30-40k in two years? It would be more likely for me to get home and find Jennifer Elison, Ashley Judd and Christina Agulera in my bed waiting for me to roger them to death :)

    As said you should start with the basics like compTIA A+ then progress onto other entry level certs like compTIA N+ and Microsofts MCDST.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  5. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    That's sales people for you. If you want to be a DBA, why on earth do you have to be a MCSE? They are two different fields :rolleyes:

    These higher level certifications are there to reflect your experience, and not a substitution for it

    While a degree is not a requirement, it can help in certain areas, plus if you migrate to another country. However I would also like to point out that it does not have to be a degree, but a degree level qualification.

    Marketing... No-one can guarantee you a job. Stats can be used to prove anything and a target is not really worth anything. For example if I asked 100 random people (who worked in IT) if they knew how to use a PC, 100% would say yes. I could then say eveyone knows how to use a PC - but that's not the whole picture. And as for the target, I have a target to be a CIO/CTO, however that does not mean that I'll be one.

    Exactly

    While you haven't put the price down, I have seen quite alot of other prices from other training companies. The cost of some of these programs, you can self-study or attend college for the A+, Network+ & the MCDST (which are the recommend entry level certs for IT Support) or do the C&G's/BTEC diploma in Databases, plus either a whole degree or the HNC/HND part-time at Uni.

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  6. Firebrand-Robert

    Firebrand-Robert Bit Poster

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    I agree with all the comments here and to add to your research you could use a tool like IT Jobs Watch which uses recruitment adverts to provide stats about number of vacancies and related salaries.

    And I guess obviously why not search for jobs in your area on something like IT Job Board for MCSE advertised jobs in cambridge.

    These two sites (and others like them) should help you understand what you might earn and how much experience (and what type) with various certifications/skills after what amount of time.
     
  7. Lanky

    Lanky New Member

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    Cheers guys I'll have to do some research into this CompTIA then.
    I suppose the next question is, if I decide to do that is it best to do self study? Which I presume is essentially getting a book and booking the test with someone?
     
  8. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    if you have half a brain and I assume you do because you are using a computer then yes you can self study there is absolutely no need for a training provider. All you do is get the books needed, study and practice the concepts involved then book the exams with www.pearsonvue.com (for compTIA exams) or www.prometrice.com (for Microsoft exams).

    You need to register on either site there you will be able to find your nearest test center and you book the exams. for compTIA A+ and N+ anyway you can buy discount international vouchers from www.gracetechsolutions.com which cuts money of the price of the exams, you use the voucher code to pay for the exams instead of paying pearsonvue with your credit card.

    With Microsoft exams you will find vouchers in the MS Press books and it's just as similar above but paying prometric.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?

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