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Skillsgap for system engineers.

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by johnwai, Aug 21, 2006.

  1. johnwai

    johnwai New Member

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    Hiya Everyone.

    Been told by an Advent representative that theres a need for systems engineers in the IT industry. They all have recruitment background etc ... 80% people use microsoft systems and software blah blah blah. Its a worldwide qualification and so forth.

    Does anyone agrees on this ?

    Do employers these days desire people with MSCE qualifications still. Some say its hard and some say its easy and because its easy if you agree then they re really not needed.

    What are your views ??

    (Sorry Im new, and I havent introduced myself, I will do so shortly)
     
  2. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    Hi!

    Thats a very good debate but if you think that 90% (i think) of the world's PC run windows something must be right. The MCSE/MCSA is still *wanted* but it has lost some of its value since post Y2K. The IT bubble burst and now the market is flooded with MCSE.... im just going to add to it!:biggrin Even thou we are flooded from what the guys say here potential employers like to see you certified with Microsoft so thats a plus...

    Slightly off topic.... is this going to be your 1st IT certification? Do you have any work experience with Microsoft operating systems and networking?
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  3. Sandy

    Sandy Ex-Member

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    I would agree with him if you were in India or China! Huge numbers of jobs are going east due to globalisation.
     
  4. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    That bubble is due to burst soon, IMO (if the track you're on about is off-shoring). I have a sister who has worked in banking her entire career. Apparently the US have already gone through the offshore and cut costs - ooh crap it doesn't work - bring 'em back over routine.

    There's only so long people will cope with/put up with offshoring of call centres and so on, and so forth. Give it a couple of years, get a couple of certs under your belt, and industries 'll be gagging for techs again.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  5. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Sensible advice Arroryn.

    The offshoring bubble will indeed burst - but I reckon it will get worse before it gets better. There are a huge number of, for want of a better word, turds out there in junior executive roles who go from company to company offshoring everything or moving from one offshorer to another in order to save loads of money and pocket a massive bonus for f***ing everyone over before moving onto the next place to do the same thing.

    This is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future - greedy bastards will always be greedy bastards but, sooner or later, when the depths have truly been plumbed (if you think India is bad, just wait until they end up in Bangladesh - trust me, you will be praying for Indian call centres then!) things will start returning.

    A lot of US organisations have realised that people CAN vote with their feet and, as we enter an age when the vast majority of consumers within the next ten years will have either been brought up, or become very familiar with IT, customer service will make a BIG comeback.

    My advice would be the same as Arroryn's do some studying now, but don't buy into the crap about everyone needing MCSE's - that fad has passed. What employers want now is, basically, your life. If you expect to be called at 3 AM three times a week, can handle the fact that you might not have a 'weekend' of two consecutive days for three months at a time and can do everything from installing a print server to reconfiguring a company's WAN architecture on a budget that won't stretch to a bag of cashews from Sainsbury's - then an Engineer role is for you!

    If, like most normal people, you value your sanity, you'll quickly develop a specialisation. My tip at present would be to take a long, hard look at either SQL Server or Exchange. Both platforms are undergoing a MASSIVE overhaul at the moment - each is a monumental improvement on its predecessor and in the next couple of years a LOT of work will be had contracting for Exchange 2K7 & SQL 2K5 rollouts.

    If you're just starting out, consider the merits of beginning on A+, Network+ & Security+ before beginning an MCSE/MCSEA course. They'll give you the fundamentals you need, and will help you decide whether you want to specialise early, or develop a grounding in everything before specialising later down the line.

    As for the recruiter - like Olivia Newton-John once sang 'Just get Cynical'. Well - she didn't EXACTLY sing that, but you get the idea - take EVERYTHING they say with a large pinch of Sodium Chloride...

    :p
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  6. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    It's easy if you cheat, it's hard if you want to learn all the relevant material.

    I thought it would be fairly straight forward and easy, I passed my first MCP with flying colours, and the next and the next. Then I came up against 70-216 (the beast of 2000) wow, was that a tough exam, I failed it after six months full on study and I thought I knew the stuff inside out. No score, just sorry you failed :blink It took me another 4 months to cover all the topics again, as I had no idea which one I was weak in. So, 10 months to pass one exam! Anyone who says that is easy is either an alien or a dumper.

    Then there was an easy exam administrating AD.

    Then there was AD design, sheesh, I hate design exams.

    Oh and it took me a year to study for ISA. I love the product but my god, why do Microsoft have to grill you on the clustered enterprise edition. No that was not an easy exam, it was as tough as nails, probably the hardest exam I have ever sat in my life.

    Seven MCPs easy, no way, the MCSE is a long, tough nut to crack. Believe me, I've been there and done it the right way, with books, white papers, technet, home lab, hands on, blood sweat and tears.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  7. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    LOL - you chickened out of the Network Design one too then? :wink:

    I went in with good intentions of doing both - but quickly realised that after basically studying for four months for the Admin one and barely passing it by the skin of my teeth (I didn't get a score either, but I KNOW I failed some of the questions cos I looked 'em up afterwards) I thought it best to take the easy route with AD design instead :)
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  8. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Yup I chickened out, 216 was quite enough for me, if you really want to know how hard I thought 70-216 was back then in Sept 2002 and how it feels to fail the beast, it is documented on the net :oops:
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  9. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    and knowing 216 is now 291 doesnt help! Could someone just offer me a 700 please!!!!!!!:cry:
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  10. Pete01

    Pete01 Kilobyte Poster

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    Are they trying to sell you a course?

    There are loads of paper MCSEs out there and loads of uncertified top notch admins who don't need to prove their knowledge and ability.

    If you have no experience and are looking to get into IT don't pay for an expensive 'quick MCSE' get A+, MCP (in a desktop OS), network+.

    Don't believe the hype about MCSE = 25k, it's all a load of codswallop

    There's no substitute for experience even if the training companies try and convince you otherwise.
     
    Certifications: MCP (NT4) CCNA
    WIP: 70-669, Learning MSI packaging
  11. Sayed

    Sayed Bit Poster

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    hello :)

    In my opinion, experience is far more desired by employers rather than the actual certification... because you can get certified and not have any experience at all... which isnt what employers really want...
    My company took on someone in netwrk support and they didnt know jack! even tho that person had an MCSE...
    plus these days, employers are aware of the fact that you can go out and get certified with very little practical experience..
     
  12. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    As has been said many many times on this forum, you need a combination of experience and certs to make you a valuable asset.

    Seems a tad odd to me to come on a certification forum and slate getting certified :blink
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  13. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    I agree totally Pete. Some things go hand in hand. You couldn't complete a medical degree without working in a hospital could you?

    Si
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  14. johnwai

    johnwai New Member

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    Hi guys

    Thanks for the info, its been very helpful.
    Just enroled for the MCSE course with advent computer training. In a sense i know its a bad idea from what you guys have said.

    I got a degree in multimedia computing where I did all sorts such as CISCO ccna , java, c++, databases, web development etc .... Do you think i am good enough yet ?

    I know my stuff i guess. Just been very unsuccessful with jobs. Alot of it comes down to my interview skills which Im always keen to work on.

    Whats the best way to get experience ? people say to do voluntary work etc ... but hardly any IT firms that ll let you gain experience like that. Its a waste of their time and money.

    You really get lost when you have been unsucessful and the advice that people give you dont always work out for you. I do appreciate it though.
     
  15. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    Look to be honest just work hard and do your best and sometimes things dont turn out good, but something will come along sooner or later. Good luck on the studies with MCSE.
     
    Certifications: A+ | CCA | CCAA | Network+ | MCDST | MCSA | MCP (270, 271, 272, 290, 291) | MCTS (70-662, 70-663) | MCITP:EMA | VCA-DCV/Cloud/WM | VTSP | VCP5-DT | VCP5-DCV
    WIP: VCAP5-DCA/DCD | EMCCA
  16. Sandy

    Sandy Ex-Member

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    Pete

    I found the Network Design exam easier than 216! Shhh I did the AD one as well!:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
     
  17. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Really, well you are the first person that I have known Sandy that states it was easier :blink
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)

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