Should I do N+ if i have CCNA

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And how is that "discouraging people from bettering themselves"? It isn't, because we give them advice, reasoning behind the advice, and a clear alternative so they CAN succeed. Thus, you either don't understand what I say, you don't care enough to choose your words accurately, or you're saying it simply to cause trouble.

Say that you don't agree with my advice - that's fine. Say that I'm wrong - that's fine too. But don't say that I "discourage people from bettering themselves", because that's total crap. I've said it before, but the personal attacks need to stop.

 

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I've not made this a personal thing and have stated that by saying I'm not having a dig and said I'm not criticising you. If you don't accept that well then there isn't anything I can do about that.

I'll just clarify my point so there isn't any misunderstanding when I said we shouldn't discourage people from bettering themselves it wasn't pointed at you and was a general statement meaning learning whether it's hands on knowledge or learning with a home lab is going to help bettering a persons knowledge and understanding. Just because maybe someone doesn't have hands on experience doesn't mean we should discourage other ways of learning.

Let’s stick to the topic and agree we don't see eye to eye on this subject. Let’s stop with going back and forth picking points out of each others posts. I really don't want to turn another thread into another farce.

 

Then stop making the snide comments. Stick to your point, as you did in the rest of your post, with the exception of that last sentence.

 

truthfully you want to get a grip. I could say the same to you

 

That path forward makes sense. Just be sure to give yourself adequate time to review because it covers A LOT of material and it's easy to start forgetting some of the stuff on the "edges" if you don't use it. Good luck going for it!!

 

Just to add to that I found when I did my A+ that the Exam Cram books were really good for last minute revision.

 

Well I see the argument of experience verus certifications has risen up again. With BosonMichael slipping punches again (Thowing the odd jab as well!). As much as want to argue agaisn't Boson et al. The truth is he's correct. Obviously I agree with the other poster about people better-ing themselves as they put it. Perhaps this shouldn't use certifications however. As stated elsewhere entry level certs like A+ and N+ validate experience but they are not worth much in getting a job. We still see MCSE or CCNA/P mentioned or sometimes you see a MCP mentioned. If its a developer job usually it states degree and not those programming certs from Microsoft! Most employers seem to want experience not qualifications. As BosonM mentions its just the employers job then, to weed out the morons and find someone who can.

So what then. Well with most IT certs needing recertification these days and most of them not requested then there is no point in them, perhaps we will now see a rise in hnd and degree courses again. At least brain dumping these is getting a lot harder with text comparision software (do you really want to enter a fellow student's text!) and the fact that attendance is required.

I ironically have just booked a Network+ exam but I'm out of work and with only 1 year direct IT support experience (with 6 years indirect/ part Desktop support) its just not going to help me. I have a HNC in computing and have decided to head towards a degree so HND starts next month then a 1 year top up. I know a degree won't help either but until someone takes a chance on a moron with no experience I'm sunk aren't I. I have applied for hundreds of jobs some even 2nd line and higher. Guess what yep not a bite. Interviews for 1st line or application support jobs have happened of late but no offers. Will a new Network+ cert help well no. Will a degree well no but just maybe down the line it will accent some future experience.

Incidentally I sat through a CCNA course and thanks to a Cisco engineer I didn't sit an exam. I don't regret it now as it isn't going to help my current position. It did make me realise I liked networking but then a SOHO router at home could have done that.

So to finish Boson is spot on though I will say to Boson this will not be the last time you end up slipping punches on this debate. Many people think education is everything but as the mechanics say you can teach me how to fix it. You can certify me but by the time you've done that the engine is already running thanks.

 

Im sure theres a saying about people in glass houses not throwing stones. This was totally unnecessary, and you could have omitted it from your post. It's only purpose was to aggravate. If you think there's a problem with BM's tone/attitude, then report it to the appropriate people.

Not necessarily, you can look at volunteer support with charities, etc to build some experience in the meantime. This will help your chances, but yes, until someone takes the chance theres not much you can do.

Then perhaps you should be looking at your CV? If the majority of jobs you apply for give you nothing, then theres a chance the CV is off. If you have any doubts, there are plenty of people here willing to give advice on your CV (BM amongst them).

Could be interview technique then. Perhaps something you need to review. I'm not great at interviews, although I've managed to get by. There are a good few threads on the forum about interview technique. Its something that needs to be worked at - few people are good without effort.

 

This.

My goal isn't to "throw punches", as you put it. My goal is to help people better their careers. Some will follow my advice, and some won't. Either way, I've given the best logical argument that I can give.

 

I'm not trying to aggravate anything, merely to point out that this argument has reappeared on here and many other forums on certs and keeps on rearing it's head. I often see Boson Michael getting involved. My choice of words regarding slipping punches may have been misplaced but my intention was not to suggest a punch up merely to highlight the dynamic. I don't have any issue with BM's tone or attitude.

Thanks for your pointers, they are appreciated, though by describing my situation i was trying to show that experience was my real issue here. In my previous career interviews and jobs came a lot easier because I was calling on 6 years plus experience. Now in the IT world I call on a lot less. I could aim more customer focussed withy my CV/Job search but I'm trying to change direction here. I am due to attack an interview for a job I want this week so all this may become academic.

My original post was to highlight the fact that a lot of certs are pointless. This is my opinion based on little experience but a lot of job hunting. I rarely see Network+ or any of the CompTIA certs on job requirements. I think once I saw an A+ mentioned and of course that phrase 'any other qualifications relating to the appointment' may cover some bases. From a developer point of view you don't see anybody ask for MCSD or MCPD in fact often they just want experience/and or degree. Often Java developers don't need paper certs. Linux administrators don't have to have LPI quals. So basically does experience even need backing with certs.

Also are MCSE and CCNA and perhaps a degree the only ones worth bothering about. If nobody requests a CompTIA cert why bother to get one. MMmm might go back on Prometric and cancel my N+ now I've talked myself out of it.

 

Well Boson I agree. Although a couple of years ago I would be arguing agaisn't you. Maybe I started to see the light more recently. Ironically I came on the forum today to look at learning resources and success stories around Network+ and now I'm bogged down in this.

My argument is basically yes experience is everything and what is the point of certs full stop really. I guess considering my current route and the fact I'm on this forum means I'm just misaligned and lost!

 

Don't give up on the N+ probably won't help much in getting a job but it won't do any harm and maybe an interviewer will know what it is or at least ask then that gives you the opportunity to explain it and show you are keen and willing to learn.

 

Everyone has their on view on the point on IT certs, experienced engineers, employers, new starts in IT. My personal view is they are great for learning (not their purpose, I know), sure you can just as easily buy a book on a subject and read it, setup a few labs etc, but the fact you have an exam to aim towards sorta gives you the motivation, at least for me it does. Also another string in the bow when job hunting.

 

I'm only kidding Network + in 6 weeks then I'll do MCSE!! No I won't though I'm tempted to go back to CCNA eventually or that couple of routers I got on ebay will look as silly as that rubber tie fighter I bought!

Ebay hey one man's sh**e is another man's cr*p!

All in all I probably shouldn't have changed careers although there wasn't any prospects in Armitage Shanks defecation polishing. Yes that is a sh*t joke. I was in a technical role. That lid closing mechanism was never very good.

 

Sounds good to me DC Pr0Mo!

I think that's going to be my take. With that in mind though it means I can design my own route and just do what I want. Then not put it on the CV till I think it deserves to be there. Still think I'll be heading through the degree route mainly though. I'm quite keen on programming as well so I may head in that direction.

To be fair some subjects are difficult to grasp without structure and an exam at the end. Programming is one of those. Sure you can read books on C++/C# but a specific cert that allows you to measure what you have learnt at the end is quite a nice concept.

Anyway well off topic of N+ now.

I have the Sybex and Meyers books to delve through now.

Cheers All

 

The point of certifications is to give yourself an advantage over others who might be as experienced as you. And, particularly in this employment market, every advantage counts.

In addition, there are still a few employers out there who view certifications with some regard. Having certifications will enable you to look good to those employers.

Provided you have the experience to go with the certifications (with the obvious exception of entry-level certifications), the only thing you have to lose is the cost of the exam and the time it takes you to study for it. Whether that cost is worth it is entirely up to you.

 

Actually, most programmers don't need certifications. The reason why they don't need them and administrators do is because programmers can show employers a portfolio of code they've developed. Web designers have that same advantage, and as such, employers of programmers and Web designers usually don't care much for certifications. But administrators can't really provide a "portfolio" of sites we've administered. That's why certifications are more useful on the admin side of the house.

 

Fair do's. It can be difficult to tell tone from forum posts, as we all know, and the choice of words made it sound that way, but its not always the case..

No problem. Although don't underestimate beefing up your customer service for helpdesk roles. its often more important to be good at that, than it is to be an experienced tech for those positions. You will learn when they teach you, but you need to be good with customers from the start.

 

just to throw my limited viewpoint into the discussion, I am currently chasing a "help desk technician" role that lists MCP, A+ or MCITP as requested technical expertise.

Granted in this situation, having A+ and mentioning that my Network+ is in progress may give me an edge.

But to me it begs the question, if I had worked towards an MCITP ( and I assumed that was more a Sys Admin or Enterprise Admin cert), would I then be seen as overqualified for this kind of role?

The job role is a Tier1 leading to Tier2.
For me, doing Network+ and then MCDST means that hopefully if I find myself in a role that allows me to gain some networking experience, I might actually be trusted to do some things beyond the scope of my day to day duties.
Or is that a little naive?

 

It really depends on who the manager is and their take on your CV. Some will look at your CV and think well we are getting more for our money and some will think hmm they are a little over qualified for this job and throw your CV in the bin. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this scenario. If you find your getting knocked back for roles that don't require say an MCITP then you can try keeping it off your CV for the time being.