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Shop-front agencies just as bad as the rest !

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by UKDarkstar, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Just returned from the inspiring jobcentre and on my way back walked past an office recruitment co in the high street.

    In the window - Database Administrator £20-£25k

    I thought "hmmn, only asking for Office/Access skills - I could probably do that and it might be a way in to something better". Off I trot inside and then it goes like this :

    Me : Could I speak to someone regarding the vacancy for a Database Administrator that you have in the window please ?

    Recruiter (note - not receptionist, recruiter) : We don't have a vacancy like that

    Me : I'm sorry, it's the one that you have in the window at the moment ?

    Recruiter : Oh that. I think that's gone. We don't update the window very often and as it's been quiet with the holiday we've left quite a few in there. It's my colleague's vacancy anyway, she's out of the office, I'm sure it was filled a while ago though.

    Me : Perhaps you could check ?

    Recruiter : Do you have a CV ?

    Me : Yes, I have one with me but it wouldn't be tailored for that position. I could prepare one if required.

    Recruiter : Well let me take your cv and we'll keep it on file in case we get anything

    Me : Could we check about that particular vacancy ?

    Recruiter : That's my colleague's vacancy and she's out of the office but I'm sure it's gone

    Me : Any chance to confirm that ?

    Recruiter : That's my colleague's vacancy and she's out of the office but I'm sure it's gone (I'm sure I'm speaking to a parrot by this time)

    Me : Ok then I'll leave you the CV that I have with me

    Recruiter : Oh that's great. We can put that on file

    Jeeeez. Sometimes I think I have the patience of a saint !
     
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  2. dales

    dales Gigabyte Poster

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    Im afraid all recruiters are the same, its all just one big numbers game to them. I never found a job with a recruiter I've always got jobs by going through the local rags. I always find recruiters mess you about too much give you false hope and then you never hear a dickie bird from them after a while. They never listen to where you want to work or the salary expectations. Unless a job advert is very specific about where its based and its salary range I dont even give it a second glance, I cant be bothered to waste my time on a job that might be miles out of my requested area or a job where they dont want to pay you the going rate, (they must be hiding something if they dont state the salary or say market rate).
     
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  3. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    Most recruiters are the same, but I've got a few jobs by using them, and the wife has only ever got a job through them. So I guess it's hit & miss.

    Best of luck on your hunt.
     
  4. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Gods. Is it time for the bi-monthly agency whinge again already?

    Look, this type of behaviour is not unique to agencies. It takes place in all walks of life. Hell, even in IT, though it may actually surprise you to learn.

    You have two choices, use agencies, or dont. There really isnt any more than that. You are never going to change how they work. Some are better than others. Find the ones that work and use them. ignore the rest.
     
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  5. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Its common for them to leave adverts around or even create fake job adverts to drum up more CVs.

    Once they get your CV they 'harvest' it for information, references, previous employers, etc.

    If they like the look of something, usually a large previous employer, they will phone up and try and get insider contact information off you.

    Generally they are trying to build two databases :-

    1. A client/positions database, this is normally percieved as their most important asset.
    2. A candidate database, this is not normally seen as such a big deal as most seem to think candidates grow on trees, often 'we'll put you on file' means the round filing cabinet by the door, otherwise called 'the bin'.

    They then try to cross match both databases using a bizare buzzword bingo system taking into account very little preferences from either party, sometimes they try to take into account client preferences but generally fail miserably as they don't really understand the requirement.

    Like most things in life the whole system is driven by money, in this case the recruiters commission, its often not in the recruiters best interest to place the best candidate so often neither the client or candidate really get what they want and the recruiter is generally the winner. Recruiters make the market, the more churn they generate the better, every job change is extra commission.

    Theres a few rare exceptions, if you manage to get a better experience you are very lucky indeed !

    Unfortunately HR departments are generally filled with the same breed and would rather leave their recruitment responsibilities to outside agencies. So you basically have very little choice, its a matter of finding a way to work with the system as best you can.

    I'm surprised theres not more direct employment websites, sort of a recruitment ebay if you like, because in IT, posting on jobserve is basically all the recruiters seem to do anyway.

    I think networking and direct marketing is one way forward but thats not going to be a viable option for most people, they will still need to fall back on agencies as many companies will not read your letters/emails, or go to conferences and will not advertise.

    Best of luck, don't let them get to you! :)
     
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  6. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    Fergal requires a gold star.

    *takes a bit of gold-dust and gives it to Fergal for his excellent comment* :p
     
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  7. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    I agree BUT not so easy after 4 months not working - you'll try anything !
     
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  8. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I'll try anything, sure... but a bad agency's gonna do more harm than good. Like Fergal said, find a good one, and use them. If they're good, you won't EVER need any of the others.
     
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  9. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well yes, any job with the word 'agent' in it normally means they are pretty bad...

    For instance, nobody likes Estate Agents...

    However at least an estate agent doesn't phone you up while you are unemployed, tell you how bad the market is, promise you a $$$ job as long as you provide them with up front references, and if you should ever do so that you surprisingly never hear from them again !

    It kinda reminds me of the "I hate bill gates" jokes

    "Whats the difference between the Devil and Bill Gates?"

    "The Devil does it because of his belief in pure evil, Bill just does it for the money..."

    People talk a lot about ethics on this forum, anti braindumps, working hard on something you love etc, yet as soon as recruiters are mentioned we are supposed to forget them ?
     
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  10. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I didnt say dont use them. Just dont whine about it.

    Again, not forget - just dont whine. At the end of the day, you cant control how agencies work. Either leave them well alone and forget about it, or find ones that you can accept and use them.

    Ethics are relative anyway. The only ethics you can do anything about are your own. You can choose not to use BD sites, you can choose not to cheat, you can choose whether you use an agency whose ethics you disagree with. You control your own actions, not those of other parties.

    I'm just sick to death of the constant whining about awful agencies are. Boo Hoo! Its getting to the stage where its second only to the anti-MS whining. Like I said, if you dont like them, dont use them. For a start, you are tarring all agencies with a pretty wide brush. We dont like it when people do the same to IT, so why dont we start the trend by not doing it to other professions?

    For the record, my other half is a recruiter. Might be worth considering what you say next. :biggrin
     
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  11. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    *tenterhooks*
     
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  12. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    I'm well aware of that, like you say, only you can control your actions...

    Depends does her agency get involved in this sort of thing :-

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4289543.stm

    Is exploitation ok as long as it doesn't happen to you ?
     
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  13. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    Fergal,

    Is she an IT recruiter? :D
     
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  14. Crito

    Crito Banned

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    Yep, I had to remove some buzzwords from my resume because I was getting too many calls about positions I wasn't interested in.
     
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  15. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    :biggrin:biggrin

    Not to my knowledge. That said, the recruitment she deals with has no danger of falling below minimum wage. Not even close.

    I'm not saying agencies are all great, I'm just saying that - beyond reporting illegal activities, complaining about them serves no purpose. We all know they are crap, that they harrass you for previous employer/other job details.

    Exploitation is not ok, in any circumstance. But an unofficial forum is not the place to be dealing with something like that. Besides, that isnt whats brought up in these kind of posts. What is brought up is them being crap.

    I'm afraid not. Shes an Engineering Recruiter.
     
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  16. Naive

    Naive Byte Poster

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    I've only ever used two agencies, and both agencies where unbelievably fantastic, (one was I.T orientated, the other not) So I guess maybe I'm lucky but I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush, I found a great one and will stick with them in the future also, I wouldn't slag any recruiter off because I wouldn't bring myself to that level, everyone gets paid to do a job, from Footballers to traffic wardens, everyone has to make a living :D
     
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  17. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

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    Maybe you could share them with us. If they are good and you would recommend them then maybe they can help someone else here.
     
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  18. Naive

    Naive Byte Poster

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    Sure thing, the I.T agency I used to land a job recently whom have excellent communication..

    ApplauseIT

    And the other agency I've used in the past is

    Kelly Services

    Can't fault these in the slightest!

    HTH :)
     
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  19. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    I'd choose Kelly's Services...:p

    I mean Kelly Services!!!
     
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  20. Naive

    Naive Byte Poster

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    Highly recommended that's for sure :twisted:
     
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