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self taught vs training provider

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by superkarimo, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. superkarimo

    superkarimo Bit Poster

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    From an employers point of view what is better, a person who has taught themselves through buying/using free cheap resources or someone using a credible training provider at higher cost?

    I am interested in pursuing training in IT particularly programming and website design but feel most courses with training providers are too expensive. Is the self taught route credible and realistic?

    BTW having read the latest issue of .Net magazine where 1 design company manager says he would only take on university graduates in a design role, is lack of a degree a big drawback?
     
    Certifications: City & Guilds diplomas in C,C++ and VB
    WIP: ???
  2. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    hi and welcome to CF!!

    When you go for a job the employer wont know if you got the cert yourself or through a company...The resources you use for self-study more than often end up being better value for money than the ones at training providers ... self-study is very possible and im sure guys will be along to help you out more in your programming and web design questions! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  3. superkarimo

    superkarimo Bit Poster

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    thanks for your reply zimbo.

    I think i should clarify that I meant self taught as in learning programming or website design but not taking certification exams. The idea would be to learn and create my own portfolio of work both on and offline. In essence I'd have some sort of proof of learning/experience but not a certificate. I have never seen any job advertised locally specifically asking for any certificates but have fallen at the first post because I have no examples of what I can do. My one concern of teaching myself is that the level/standard of work would not be high enough to gain entry into a job this way.

    I guess I'd better update/make an entry on my profile as some info there may help

    ttfn
     
    Certifications: City & Guilds diplomas in C,C++ and VB
    WIP: ???
  4. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Hi,

    I'm not sure how to approach this one, but here goes anyway!

    You are looking to do programming / Web design possibly through the self study route, but are not wanting to persue certification at present, yes?

    Building up a portfolio of evidence will be advantageous to you, but will only help you so far, what you need will be some type of formal qualification that will help you to get over that first step, and actually get you to the interview process. Experience of doing your own stuff is all good and well, but recruiters like to see something that they recognise on an application.

    You also mention people wanting degrees, have you considered doing this part time? You may find that this will open up doors for you, and if you pick the right course it could get you experience at the same time.

    HTH

    8)
     
  5. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    why dont you try open university?
    just a thought mate?
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  6. sneezie

    sneezie Nibble Poster

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    I got an IT degree and I'm working as a software tester at the moment, but I really want to get into programming. I only have a very basic knowledge of Visual Basic, so there's absolutely no way that I can get a job in this field. My plan is to teach myself vb.net, follow the syllubase for the MCAD exams. That way, I'll be killing two birds with one stone: 1)I'll be learning programming so at least I know something and can apply for jobs 2) if I really want a microsoft certificate, I would have covered all the topics for the exam.

    As simongrahamuk said, building up a portfolio is a great idea and having cerfications will make you a stronger candidate to employers. Depending on how much time you have to study, it won't take long to get your certs. There are 3 papers for the MCAD exam, I'm planning to complete 2 of them within 6 months. Then I can market myself better when applying for jobs. But if I get a programming job before taking those exams, then there'll be no rush in me taking the exams.

    Not having a degree isn't a drawback at all. I mean, look at me, first class honours degree, can't even get into programming. It's all to do with the ability to be competent in a programming language and your personality. Age isn't a problem in IT. Employers would prefer someone who can do the work, got real world experience rather than a graduate with a degree and hardly any workplace experience. There are so many IT companies out there, I'm sure you'll have no problems finding a job.

    Best of luck!
     
    Certifications: Degree
    WIP: MCAD in vb.net
  7. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

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    you sound like you just graduated... did you do any work placement? I mean that counts for like one year when you apply for entry-level doesnt it?

    After the bubble burst experience has become the key... people dont want to employ IT staff who have an MCSE lets say and cant tell you nothing about server 2003 cause all he did was read a book and use some BAD BAD BAD third party provider of braindumps!
     
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  8. sneezie

    sneezie Nibble Poster

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    Hi Zimbo,
    I graduated last year. I did a one year's internship in a bluechip firm, and now working for another firm doing software testing. So I've got 2 years of testing experience. I have no problems getting testing/business analyst/working with end users/database related job roles. But what I really want to do is VB.net programming, which I dunno much about. So that's why I need to study vb.net, so that I can waffle on about it in interviews and not look like a complete idiot. :p
     
    Certifications: Degree
    WIP: MCAD in vb.net
  9. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    Just remember that a degree lasts for life whereas certifications either expire or become obsolete :(

    Pete
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  10. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Well, I'm not too sure about this in the computer field. If someone had graduated with a degree in Computer Science in the mid 90's and hadn't kept up with the field their degree would be of very little help in getting a job or showing that they know much about current practices. I'd say it wouldn't be of too much more value than an MCSE for NT 4.0. This field changes so rapidly that anything that remains static loses its percieved value.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  11. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

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    I haven't got a degree in anything but I am aware that there is a certain snobbery in some circles where you are not considered worthy without one. I don't think it matters too much to these people whether your degree is even related to the job at hand. It is just a label which can open doors and I don't think it will expire or lose it's relevance in this context. Whether or not it's of any real use is another matter entirely. I am not one of *these people* btw.

    Pete
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  12. superkarimo

    superkarimo Bit Poster

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    Cheers for all the replies. I may have come across as dismissive as having certificates but I yet to see any adverts locally which specify certain certificates. If employers are looking for them why don't they mention them in ads? I will probably pursue them on the basis that it may help find work and as a hoop to jump through. As for doing a degree, quite simply I do not have the time which raises another subject which I'll post as a new thread
     
    Certifications: City & Guilds diplomas in C,C++ and VB
    WIP: ???
  13. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    When it comes down to it, experience and being able to demonstrate that you can do the job is tops. I work in a Linux shop with a group of programmers...none of whom have a cert to their name and some of them don't even have a degree. What they do have is the ability to do the job consistantly and well. I'm not putting down quals...just saying that it takes more than a piece of paper to get and keep a job in IT.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  14. Sandy

    Sandy Ex-Member

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    I would not be interested in how you got your certs just how good are you.:p
     
  15. superkarimo

    superkarimo Bit Poster

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    trip

    out of curiosity how did the employer know or trust they were up to the job without certs?
     
    Certifications: City & Guilds diplomas in C,C++ and VB
    WIP: ???

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