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Salary...

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by nXPLOSi, May 15, 2008.

  1. nXPLOSi

    nXPLOSi Terabyte Poster

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    Afternoon guys,

    Just a question about salary really.

    Within the last 6 months, I've been getting heavily involved in the more serious development side of our in house system, as well as still doing my own duties as system admin. I have been in the job 2 years, and in the company for 4 years. There is only myself and another IT guy here, who is actually classed as the system developer. He earns alot more then myself, even though im pretty much in charge of the department, and the main contact to the owner of the company.

    I have been told I can take courses, paid for by the company. I am then tied to the company for a year after the latest course i'd take. Problem is I feel underpaid for the amount of knowledge and experience I have within the company. The courses will only tie me down here, and prevent me from moving up into a higher paid job elsewhere, and leave me with very little "power" to ask for an increase.

    I guess I am a big fish in a small pond, the company would struggle without me as its a very specialised market we're in.

    Is it worth asking for an increase? Or even voicing my opinions at all? I know it can be a very touchy, awkward subject and have no idea how to approach it..

    Thanks for reading and any advice :)
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA 2003 (270, 290, 291), MCTS (640, 642), MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  2. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    Well it's a purely personal point of view but if you are happy with the company in other ways, i.e. the atmosphere is good, you get on well with colleagues etc etc I would take a few of the courses available to you and on the completion then as for a pay increase. You will be far better equiped to do so and regardless if they refuse, you still have them on your cv for the future.
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  3. nXPLOSi

    nXPLOSi Terabyte Poster

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    True, downside is that once i've done the course(s) im tied down, and they can just say no to any payrise etcc and im powerless to do anything about it. Its a tough decision, as there are positives to most of the possible solutions..
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA 2003 (270, 290, 291), MCTS (640, 642), MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  4. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    True also, once you've completed the courses it will make you more marketable out in the jungle so to speak. If you're happy to stick it out for 12 months, which in the great scheme of things isn't that long, it could be worth it for the training.
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  5. Cockles

    Cockles Megabyte Poster

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    I can't really give any advice regarding the courses, but if you do decide to ask for a salary increase, then one thing to certainly do would be to prepare a case as to why you think you are worth the increase you're after. For example, do you regularly take over other people's duties if they are not around? Have you implemented any new practices/systems that have proved to be successful? Have you taken on new duties since starting that weren't actually outlined in your job description? It's also worth mentioning - if you know - how the salary you're on stands with exactly the same role but within other companies. By no means use that avenue as a threat, but it lets your employer know that you are aware of the market and where you are in it.

    If you go for the courses, get tied, THEN mention a payrise, you're right, they could just say no as contractually there's nothing you can do about it, you can't threaten to leave. Still, the fact they are offering to pay for your certifications is good though, isn't it?
     
    Certifications: None
    WIP: Trying to find my car keys
  6. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    My thoughts as well, it's only 12 months anyway. Hardly a long time :biggrin
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  7. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Would you be able to pay back the cost of the course? If not... I wouldn't take the course. Who knows WHAT could happen? Think outside the box... perhaps your boss quits and his replacement is horrible. Perhaps they decide to start cutting salaries. Perhaps your co-worker quits, and they decide that you'll have to cover BOTH jobs. In my opinion, a course is not worth restricting your freedom... particularly when there's very little out there that you can't study on your own.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  8. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    Think we'll have to agree to differ there Michael. For me 12 months is only a short time to "put up" with things like that. With the experience he already has the certs could be worth a little "pain"
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  9. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    In 12 months i have

    gained 3 certifications
    paid off 5.5K of debt (which is now down to almost 0)
    Kept going a relationship (which is now a year old)
    Done a website for a former colleague
    Had 2 jobs
    and much more

    A year is a long time, and in the grand scheme of things we should be looking to get the most out of life everyday.

    I would get a clause in there saying you could pay any courses back if you were to leave, not that you plan too, its just for your peace of mind.
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  10. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    Not when you work for the best part of 50 years it isn't :dry
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  11. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Then you haven't worked at a place where it is *truly* bad. And to be honest, neither have I. But I've heard stories of friends who have.

    The point is this: you don't NEED a course to get those certs. So you don't NEED to tie yourself down for a course.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. Fastracksteve

    Fastracksteve Bit Poster

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    Yes and there I have to concede! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: CCDA ACSE CCWA Mitel SX2000 & 3300
  13. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    I haven't worked in place that bad either, but family members have. 12-months is a lifetime for the wrong manager and/or company.
     
  14. nXPLOSi

    nXPLOSi Terabyte Poster

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    I think everyone has raised very good points on this.

    I have taken on alot more duties then that was originally in my job description, but being a very small company I guess this was always to be expected. I basicly do everything and anything required. As simple as movings desks to as complex as database (SQL) alterations and developments. One of the reasons for me questioning my salary is because I have been looking around at other "similar" jobs, most even seem to be a step down in duties, for approx 6-8K increase in salary.

    Regarding the courses, I agree 12 months may be worth slugging it out if I can get paid courses, books, exams etc.. but as BM has pointed out, anything can happen in that time, and that *is* my main concern. Im worried i'll be stuck here for at least another year when I could be earning 10K more, and learning the certs myself!

    Thanks for your replies guys, really interesting to read through them :)
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, Security+, MCSA 2003 (270, 290, 291), MCTS (640, 642), MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If that's the case, then why not grab the extra 6-8K and decide whether you want to spend it on courses or... better yet... whatever you want to spend it on? ;)

    That said... you're probably gaining a whole lot of varied experience where you are, which might be worth decreased pay for a while longer. I guess it depends on whether you've learned all you can learn where you are.

    Consider this: once you DO decide to leave... you certainly won't be pricing yourself out of positions (which is something I've seen PLENTY of admins and programmers do)! You'll become the "best value" pick... which puts you in an *incredibly* advantageous position. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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