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route after MCDST

Discussion in 'MCDST' started by alien8predator, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. alien8predator

    alien8predator Bit Poster

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    Hey All,

    I'm going to be working on the 70-272 to finish off the MCDST certification and I've just been thinking about how I would like to continue on from there. I was thinking of maybe upgrading my MCDST to Vista certifications too, but I'm also wanting to get MCSA and MCSE. What would some of you advice me to do or give me some ideas which I could think about?
     
    Certifications: ITIL;70-271
    WIP: MCDST
  2. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    If you have no experience in their respective areas then you should lay off the MCSA and MCSE but upgrading the MCDST to Vista or doing the MCAD in Vista would be a good idea.

    Having high end certs like the MCSE and MCSA and no experience can do damage to your employment prospects as you are supposed to be able to hit the ground running with little or no training.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  3. alien8predator

    alien8predator Bit Poster

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    what's the difference between upgrading my MCDST to vista and the MCAD in Vista? and as thinking of the far future, I'm want to strafe towards Internet security as in knowing how to hack network systems and being able to secure them?
     
    Certifications: ITIL;70-271
    WIP: MCDST
  4. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    I actually meant MCAS (Microsoft application specialist) either one would be good or both.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  5. alien8predator

    alien8predator Bit Poster

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    What's exactly the difference between the two: one is just upgrading MCST to vista and MCAS being specialized in vista and office?or am I wrong?
     
    Certifications: ITIL;70-271
    WIP: MCDST
  6. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  7. alien8predator

    alien8predator Bit Poster

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    thx :) I'll try pming him. but why can high certifications to damage to my employment prospects when I don't have much experience?
     
    Certifications: ITIL;70-271
    WIP: MCDST
  8. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    certs like the MCSA and MCSE are supposed to show that you have actually got the job experience not that you can pass an exam.

    Microsoft recomend that you have 6 - 12 month experience in network administration before attempting the MCSA and 12 - 18 months in supporting a multi server/user environment before attempting the MCSE.

    People who manage to pass these exams with no on the job experience especially the MCSE are generally regarded as a paper MCSE and could probably have cheated to get the cert as it is very hard.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  9. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    GBL is correct. Companies with higher-level jobs won't hire you because you don't have the experience. Companies with lower-level jobs are often going to believe one or more of the following:

    1) You are more likely to have used a braindump to pass. Not that you did... but you are more likely to have done so because you don't have the proper real-world experience for the certification.
    2) You are more likely to be too expensive for the employer - they don't need an MCSA or MCSE to do a lower-level job, such as a help desk tech or desktop support tech.
    3) You are more likely to quickly get bored and leave for something better: a job more suited to an MCSA or MCSE. Then the employer is stuck having to find, hire, and train someone all over again.

    Ultimately, these three things can cause you to look more risky than other candidates. Rather than take the risk, many employers will simply bin your CV and opt for the "safer, less-expensive hire".
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    The thing to remember is that every employer has different opinions, so there is NO definative answer whether you should study for your MCSA/MCSE or not.

    That is entirely down to you and what motivates you, and what you enjoy.

    Take the company I work for. They actively seek people who have got industry qualifications, even at MCSA level without experience for 1st line work.

    There opinion is, if someone is motivated enough to put this time and effort in to learn this outside of work, they are most likely will want to progress and want a career in IT. What employer would not want to have people who put the effort in outside of work? It shows commitment.

    So, in answer to your question, I would suggest studying for what ever you want. Will it help more than not having a MCSA or MCSE, YES definately.
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  11. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    ...at your company.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Very few places will take on MCSEs with no experience. An MCSE is supposed to manage servers etc, no employer in their right mind would let someone with no experience regardless of their qualifications loose on their servers. It would be kinda of like saying to some who has just got his pilots license "here's a jumbo now take all these 300 people on holiday" not gonna happen.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  13. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    Yep :)

    We should do an experiement with First Line jobs:

    Apply for 50 without any qualifications
    Apply for the same 50 with an MCDST
    Apply for the same 50 with an MCSA
    Apply for the same 50 with an MCSE

    And see what happens.

    Any volunters to undertake this? :p
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  14. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    An MCSA takes a while to obtain, and an MCSE even longer.

    Perhaps I should have added to my post, apply for jobs in the IT sector now, but continue to develop yourself.

    If a job comes along great, if not, keep applying.
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  15. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    I think this issue has been raised more than I can count as over here in the UK a lot of recruitment agencies would not call you if you do not have an MCP on your CV.

    Craig has a point and thirdly whilst the cert would not make you get a job offer it certainly gets you noticed. On the other hand if you learn with the right attitude and go for entry level type roles you'd eventually get a IT helpdesk role which IMHO is a great start.
     
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  16. Spilly

    Spilly Kilobyte Poster

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    The Study route is shorter to a MSCA now because the Vista upgrade 70-261 from MSCDT counts as full a client exam.
     
    Certifications: A+,N+,S+,MCP,MCDST,MCITP,MCTS,MCSA,CISMP,PCI-P,SSCP
    WIP: CCSK
  17. ninjadeathcult

    ninjadeathcult Bit Poster

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    And also if your lucky you'll get a job in a helpdesk role where you are only really busy when something goes wrong which give you time to study at work
     
    Certifications: MCP, MCDST
  18. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    And that's one of the reasons why the MCSA/MCSE's are being devalued... :x
    You never see entry entry level positions requiring CCIE, CCNP, ACSA and/or RCHE, so why do the same with high-end MS certs?

    -ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  19. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    If a person has no experience and a MCSA and can prove themselves capable of doing the job (by not brain dumping), they would normally be promoted to 2nd Line in around 6 months.
     
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  20. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Exactly right. Repped.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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