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reference

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by aushus, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    Hey brothers,
    I have had some interviews with this company and they decided to go with me,
    they want to conduct a reference check,
    the manager wants to run a huge reference check,
    basically i am unemployed and in my last organization things didnt end well and i do not wanna talk about it,
    he asked me if he can phone the directors of that company
    the manager i interviewed with, nothing against him but he forgets things so i have to repeat over and over again, i told him i left the company cause it wasnt a good place to work for and most people surivie there for 6 months
    and i was there for like 2 years,
    how ever for one of my managers in the last company said he will be happy to be my reference and i reported to him so i am thinking of using him,
    this guy also wants the managers that i reported from my second company i havent even talked to these managers in like nearly 3 and half years, so i looked them up and those managers dont even work for the same company no more
    they are in different ones so i guess i could track them down and ask if they can give me reference, i might right their new company and say hey can i speak to blah blah blah and get them like that
    this guy also wants references of 3 clients that i provided work for cause he wants to know how i interacted with clients,
    i will track these clients down
    man this is a huge check,
    what do you guys think am i scrwed or?
     
  2. Josiahb

    Josiahb Gigabyte Poster

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    Most employers will avoid giving a bad reference to avoid giving grounds for a legal case against them, you'll usually just end up with dates of employment if they can't say anything nice.

    Again if your manager has left you'll normally find the company will provide dates of employment with a note to explain why they can't say more.

    To be honest that's the most exhaustive reference check I've ever known someone to ask for and your new boss has got to appreciate that the client references are going to be from people you like (and who like you) or else why would you ask them to provide one.

    I could give a long lecture along the lines of 'this is why you shouldn't burn your bridges as you leave' but that wouldn't be much help.

    As a side note, you can ask to see the references you were given once you start with your new employer which may well be worth it in this case to find out whether they tried to throw you under a bus.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, MCDST, ACA – Mac Integration 10.10
  3. Coupe2T

    Coupe2T Megabyte Poster

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    Even if your old managers have left the company you worked for, just provide the manager details and the company, it's down to the new employer then.

    I expect they will contact said company, who will look and say he worked here between these dates, may even go into whether you had any disciplinary actions against you or anything like that if they feel brave, but chances are they will just say you worked there but the management have left that were in charge of you.

    If they want to speak to the last company then give the manager details, just explain that you didn't really interact with the directors in the position that you had so they would not be in a position to provide a reference, but if they want to speak to your manager then here are his details.

    That's the approach I would take at least.
     
    Certifications: ECDL, Does that Count!?!
  4. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    First things first, you may get in to trouble with the old company if you start giving out their clients details as references, after all you're joining a company who could be classed as competitors, I for one would steer the hell away from that one.

    Secondly, all you should be providing the prospective company is the name of the previous companies, they should be contacting the HR departments for references and that should be it, the onus is on them to do the reference checks, not you. After all how do they know that Bill Gates from Google really was your manager and not your best bud from the post room?

    Lastly, remember I told you it's a small world. I run in to people I worked with 5 years ago, I know people who know people I have worked with previously (as an example, turns out my project manager worked with my sister-in-law for the last 5 years before coming here, I didn't know that until 2 months in to him working with us, also turns out that our head of Service Management also knows my SIL).

    On a side note because of the type of work we do (financial \ e-gaming) we do a very strict backcheck, to the point that we pay a 3rd party company to not only check your CV but also any listed certifications etc. Why am I bringing this up? I recently had a candidate join us who lied something chronic on his CV, to the tune of over 18 months of work for different companies being complete lies, as an example his CV said he worked for one company for 14 months, he was there for 3, another that he was with them for 6 and was there for 2. Needless to say, it's kinda difficult to trust someone who has such large differences between their CV and the real working dates.

    Remember everything is checkable these days and getting caught out is always going to end badly.
     
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  5. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    thanks for the reply guys,

    this new employer is a bit, I hate to say this but crazy,

    I had 2 interviews with them each lasting 3 hours so altogether 6.

    now he wants to check references on my previous managers that I did work for in old company which I left like ages ago, seems odd he was like give me reference details of two managers I reported to in that,

    plus recent managers

    and clients, when he said clients he said he is not doing this to sell any work or steal clients but rather wants to know how I interacted with them with the projects etc

    guys what should I do I have good client bbacking should I or should I not?
     
  6. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    I wouldn't be giving client details over, sorry but that in my books is confidential information that could get you in a world of hurt should the clients tell your old company.

    I would explain that I felt it unethical to pass over details of previous clients, managers aren't a problem but sorry previous clients are a no no. Either take me based on the interview and feedback from previous managers or find someone else.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  7. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    yeah man,

    I agree with you 100 percetly,

    but the guy said he is not gonna sell anything just wants to know how I delt with clients,

    and I told the clients that I rang for references to keep it confidential

    one client said hey bro since you left the company which ever speclaist office 365 work we get we give your new company and I said no don't do that and said NO and said pass it to the old one someone will handle it, none likes my old company they have a bad rep,

    man this mother fucking potential manager is running a huge check I don't know why.
     
  8. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

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    Better hope he/she doesn't look here then huh!

    Id be happy that a potential employer was undertaking thorough checks, to me it shows they are a professional company and that due diligence is important to them. This would also be giving me an insight into how they do things and potentially how they go about running other areas of their business.

    If you have nothing to hide, stop sweating about it.
     
    Certifications: MOS Master 2003, CompTIA A+, MCSA:M, MCSE
    WIP: Keeping CF Alive...
  9. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    so I gave 6 references for one of the jobs last Friday,
    hopefully they will hire me if the references clear out,
    when I was writing about projects I did I actualy felt I have some woworth and I talked with old people I did the work for the clients and they were happy to talk to me,
    I hope this company doesn't low ball me and I am not bragging but I have done good work and big projects for big companies I hope they pay me something that's good
    you know the salary you pay specialists, if they low ball me I am out.
     
  10. Coupe2T

    Coupe2T Megabyte Poster

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    With all due respect, for me this sums up entirely your problem! You have an attitude of I did good work once and therefore deserve top dollar golden handshake and mass pay.

    Unfortunately that is not the way the world works. Regardless of what salaries you may have seen advertised or told about for roles, you are out of work, you claim to want to be in it and doing what you can to get back in, then throwing comments suggesting if they don't meet your expectations you will bail out!

    Ridiculous stance. Get yourself in work, prove yourself and cash will follow! You can always continue to look regardless but get into work! Stop believing that because you once done well you therefore deserve something special.

    I've done tonnes of good work for several companies and I'm still really trying to make my way! Just have to accept that you always have to prove yourself, regardless of past!
     
    Certifications: ECDL, Does that Count!?!
  11. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    ok, I swore blind that I wasn't going to do this.

    Aushus, dude, you need to do a lot of growing up mate, you mucked up in your last role and you know it, I advised you at the time that with the stuff you pulled that you may have to leave the country because it's so small but I tell you what, you still haven't learned.

    What you're posting is public information, at least one (former) member of this site got in to a lot of trouble with things he posted here and you're already bad mouthing off potential managers.

    Please, stop putting your foot in your mouth because if you carry on with this stuff you're going to be flipping burgers for the rest of your life, yes you may well be gods gift to O365 but you're not the only person out there with those skills, going in with stupid salary demands after you cocked up by telling them you would accept a figure is your mistake and one that is going to potentially get you nothing but grief.

    Next time around, take some time to think of what you actually want rather than picking a figure out of the air and then being un-happy with them offering you that figure, don't bad mouth managers (future or past), don't think you're gods gift to IT because there is always someone out there who can do the job better and cheaper than you can. Finally learn some humility, you really do come across as the most stuck up person out there.

    Sorry if this offends anyone but by god I have had it up to here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
    Stuzzle and Coupe2T like this.
  12. Coupe2T

    Coupe2T Megabyte Poster

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    There is a trend developing here! Haha.

    Agreed though, acting like a spoilt child, and I've also held my tongue some but you need to get focus and a reality check.

    At the end of a day, you want to be employed, fix that first, the rest you work at after that! Learn to accept that this world is not.yours exclusively!
     
    Certifications: ECDL, Does that Count!?!
  13. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

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    Some excellent but harsh advice given here, now how you take what has been said is going to be the making or breaking of you.

    I'm sure it's meant with good intention so don't take it personal what has been said, if nobody cared they would just agree with you and let you fall flat on your face.

    Take the advice in the way it is intended and that is to shape yourself into a better employee. If you don't want to be an employee and do what others want of you then your only choice is to start your own business. You'll then understand how difficult people are under normal circumstances never mind the ones that think the world owes them a favor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    Certifications: MOS Master 2003, CompTIA A+, MCSA:M, MCSE
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  14. Coupe2T

    Coupe2T Megabyte Poster

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    Very well said, and to instantly add certainly what I said is not meant in any way personal. It's simply an opinion, and I fully suggest you dissect and take what you want from it.

    I do also however believe in this forum as an open professional forum and as such will give an honest opinion as and when feels right.

    No matter what happens, I am sure I speak for all of Cert in saying good luck, but please do try to understand what we have said and why, and learn from it.
     
    Certifications: ECDL, Does that Count!?!
  15. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    Yeah, guys I understand that I have a attitude problem and that attitude is what made me unemployed in the first place, so yes I do admit I have a problem with some of my attitude and a lot of people told me before hand a year before I lost the job that because of my attitude and my behaviour I am going to get kicked in the head. Funny story is I thought it wouldn't and when it did I realised that I was living in a virtual world and my ego was so high, this experience made me humble more than ever cause all throughout my life I acted like a douch and a lot of my former colueges and people who I thought who had my back (I helped these people and went out of my way for free) started ignoring me and ditched me after I became unemployed it goes to show you who is real and who is not. Simon I don't blame you for saying that and you are 100 percently right but I feel like as I am close to getting a deal my old ego is coming back and the old me is coming back and I do not like it :( will try and change this but its really hard to kick old habbits as its being with me for so long but I am trying and yes Simon I could end up working in Odd jobs for the rest of my life if I do not change cause a lot of people made rumors about me and talked shite about me (mostly false) and this got me black listed in some places but people who spread rumors are stupid but the people who believe them are the more stupid ones but ohh well. I understand i need to behhave and grow up and i am trying, i hope when i get employed my old attitude comes back cause i do not like that attitude and trust me i am trying to change, but its hard to kick old habbits
     
  16. Coupe2T

    Coupe2T Megabyte Poster

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    You don't kick old habits by repeating them! Stop with your perception of what others have said and done.

    Have they been here on CF and said and done? I've not seen it so to blame and place point on them is still not right.

    You really badly need to grow! Quickly too!
     
    Certifications: ECDL, Does that Count!?!
  17. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    trust me I am trying to grow and quickly too, I know its a problem that needs to be fixed which is the first step and please do believe me I am trying.
     
    SimonV likes this.
  18. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

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    Onwards on upwards then mate.
     
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  19. Stuzzle

    Stuzzle Byte Poster

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    The problem is that if you have stepped on peoples toes elsewhere,which you've admitted, then they are going to have a sour idea about you and are more likely to believe bad things others say, whether they are true or not.

    You're already starting out at a slight disadvantage, as if I remember correctly you're young for someone who is at the level you are at - so people already may have some reluctance to take you seriously at first, or they have their own issues because they think they should be at the same level as you in their own field. Due to this you almost have to act with just a little more integrity and approachability than someone 5/10 years older, so that you aren't just "That angry young guy".

    However, you Have gotten this far, either by shed loads of hard work or a skill in bullshitting (or a wonderful blend of the 2 ;)). And here in CertForums you have a whole bunch of professionals, or at least in the posts above me, willing to give you excellent, objective advice, so you're definitely not lacking the resources you need to nail this.
     
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  20. aushus

    aushus Byte Poster

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    Yeah, that's true I have stepped on people's toes and I am trying to be a nice guy now, I usually am but sometimes, its just my personality since I was born, you are who you are at the end of the day but I am not going to kick old habits by repeating them,

    Yeah I am always the youngest in the company or in the team or in projects I do which is a cool thing and I love that. I came to this stage by passion, ambition, hard work (very hard work) and most importantly taking on challenges and using every single opportunity to my advantage, if I wanted I could have being stuck in a junior/support role for the rest of my life like most people are and I could have just sit back relaxed and rode the wave (fine for some people and that's them) but NOOO that's not me I took on challenges and risks (some which didn't pay off ) and worked extra hard and I am happy with my progression because at the end of the day you basically get what you put in. However sadly I did not listen to some people when they said I am behaving badly which made me unemployed and I don't blame anyone but myself so you live and learn and when I get hrired again I am going to have my old attitude of taking risks and the hunger and hard work plus I am going to be humble and not act like a dick, it can be done guys, there were a lot of things that I was not good at naturally but I worked on them and this is another case.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015

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