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PRINCE2 2009 "Refresh"

Discussion in 'Service Management Frameworks' started by UKDarkstar, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    For those considering PRINCE2 there's a useful document detailing the "refresh" that has taken place and the differences with the 2005 syllabus :

    View attachment PRINCE2_2009_Overview_Brochure_June2009.pdf

    HTH
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  2. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I'm doing 2009 Prince2 next week.

    I've been reading the manual this week, and it's making my head hurt.
    A lot.

    :blink
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  3. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Good luck ! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: BA (Hons), MBCS, CITP, MInstLM, ITIL v3 Fdn, PTLLS, CELTA
    WIP: CMALT (about to submit), DTLLS (on hold until 2012)
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    For anyone who may be considering Prince2, I can give you the benefit of my recent experience.

    Last week I attended a public 5 day Prince(2009) course.
    It was pretty heavy going, but nothing that those of you on this forum who are used to studying couldn't handle.

    There were about ten of us there from all walks of life (four of us from an IT background).
    I certainly wouldn't say that I was the smartest of the bunch, but I think the fact that I was one of the few who had studied and sat exams since education certainly gave me an advantage.

    The subject matter is pretty dry and it's mostly centred around learning what the manual says rather than giving you any real world practical viewpoint. In fact, the delegates who actually worked in a project oriented job (such as construction) actually came off worse because a lot of what was covered clashed with their own experiences and they had to re-learn the 'Prince' meaning of some of the terms and concepts that they used every day.

    Lot of reading. It was basically suggested that you read the manual before attending - which was tough because little of it made sense, and it was a bit like reading a piece of cheese. As well as 9-5.30 course days there was a further 2 hrs of reading in the evening.

    We sat the foundation exam on Wednesday afternoon. Multiple choice, 75 questions in one hour which doesn't give you much thinking time. The questions weren't what I'd call difficult, but they relied on you remembering what the manual said about certain roles and tasks. Pretty easy to be distracted by a 'common sense' answer.

    Thursday was a re-cap followed by practice questions for the practitioner exam. So there was very little new information, but the practitioner exam has much more complex questions. It's basically scenario based and the questions come in several different formats. Tough bit is, most questions had a couple of elements to them and both had to be right to get a mark (for example multiple choice where you had to select more than one of the answers).

    Would I recommend it? Probably, but then I haven't had my results yet. So lets just say:

    Yup, it's a great course full of useful concepts that should prove useful to you especially in public sector work*/Bah, what a ball-ache, I can't believe I had to sit through a week of that tedious bilge that has no relevance in the real world*

    *I'll delete as appropriate when I get my results back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. jaydean

    jaydean Bit Poster

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    I hate the fulltime training courses and would almost always prefer self study. The reason why is the relentless pace, lack of breaks and unnatural learning situation. The Human brain is not designed to learn 7 hours a day for 3 days straight.

    My suggestion would be to self study, you can self study from a number of vendors guiding you through the process for small sums of money.
     
  6. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Each to his own.
    I'm fortunate that I can do both.

    Don't you remember going to school and sitting in a classroom all day for a week?
    It's not really an unnatural learning situation, it's a fairly common one.

    I guess it depends on the subject.
    Could you pass the MCSA in a week?
    Maybe, with the right experience.

    But in the case of Microsoft certs, MOC gives a timeframe for 'officially' going through a course - 3 days for 270 etc etc.
    In the case of Prince, the sponsoring body - the APMG says you can do it in a week.
    And you can.
    Because it's really all one subject that you keep reinforcing as the days go on.

    Generally, there is a balance between choosing self study for a longer study period so that you can cover all of the necessary stuff without 'melting your brain'.
    Then there are the subjects that benefit from a bit of 'focus'. Yes, you could self study for 18 months for Prince2 and what you end up with is exactly the same as the guy who did it in a week because it is largely a theoretical exam rather than one that relies on real world experience.

    Actually, the two guys on the course who were experienced project managers failed, mainly because the concepts required for the course clashed with their real world experiences. A bit like in an MS exam - to pass they're not looking for how you would do something, they are looking for you to tell them how MS says you should do something.

    It's all good.

    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  7. jaydean

    jaydean Bit Poster

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    Yip I suppose you may have a point. But the way I see things with school you had a term to learn a topic, and not days to dump knowledge into the old brain. With School the emphasis was learning and not training.

    I have sat through a few Microsoft MOC courses and again it’s not much fun (I'm a MCSE and have had done a fair few exams). I eventually decided that the courses didn't do it for me, and with self study I could focus on my learning needs rather than be dictated to by the trainer.

    I eventually got around to certifying for PRINCE2 and found self study to be a very good option, as I had time to reflect and accept the APMG way of doing things.

    With Microsoft MCSE I used the MS press books ISBN-13: 978-0735619715

    With PRINCE2 I used was a selfstudy site that has some online test questions for the Foundation and Practitioner tests for about a fiver. It has both 2009 and 2005 format exams. The site is http://www.itquick.co.uk
     
  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Prince2, MSP and the other related qualifications such as Change Management and Risk Assessment are all about how well you can recall the content of the 'official manual'.

    It's not a perfect system, but there we go, it's theirs.

    The way to pass the certs is to read the manual cover to cover and memorise every bit of it.
    The advantage of doing this in a class-based environment is that the trainers know which bits are important and which aren't, much like we do as MCTs.

    The thing with Prince and MSP is that they are largely conceptual, and deal with suggested routes and ways of doing things. So yes, you can learn the basics in a few days. You can't be considered an expert until you've put the principles into practice.

    I haven't checked out your link, but as with any other certification exams there are helpful resources and there are things that infringe on copyright. Without looking in more detail, I couldn't tell you.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  9. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Congrats on the pass, Jonny.
     
  10. jaydean

    jaydean Bit Poster

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    I would agree that PRINCE2 esp. the Foundation is a very simple memory test. They reckon that over 90% of people who take the test pass. I went through PRINCE2 because of the requirement for the jobs market. It is weird I personally believe that even A+ and MCDST tests are more challenging, but to business PRINCE2 and ITIL are everything.

    PS What do you reckon of ITIL?


     
  11. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Well, with any cert it really depends on where you are and what you want to do.

    Yes, I think that A+ and MCDST are more challenging, but it's about different environments.
    A+ and MCDST are about entry level first line support roles.
    Prince is about project management, with or without IT.
    MSP is about programme management.

    I completely agree that it's all about what you need for the jobs market.

    ITIL is in the same bracket as Prince and MSP.
    Despite having a background in IT, I've found of late that my job roles have taken me into a more generic field so I've gone with the appropriate qualifications.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  12. jaydean

    jaydean Bit Poster

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    Just passed my ITIL foundation exam :D. Used selfstudy website and found it to be pretty straightforward, I also think that PRINCE2 makes more sense when you also do ITIL!

     
  13. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Congratulations on the pass! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  14. JayLondon

    JayLondon New Member

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    It was very interesting discussion around training and self study. Well I would say that I did my PRINCE2 through something in the middle - a PRINCE2 elearning course. It turned out quite well; I didn't have to complete it in 3 days and study all day; nor did I have to go through the thick PRINCE2 manual myself. In total it took my about 20 hours to complete it.

    Oh I would also mention that the elearning course I got from Knowledge Train costs just a little bit more than what I would have paid to book the exam with APMG. So to me the training is almost like a free bonus!

    PM me if you want more information, or you can just google for Knowledge Train.
     
  15. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Why, because it gets past the forum rule preventing first-time spammers posting links?


    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD

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