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Preperation help for MCTS 70-536

Discussion in 'MCAD / MCSD / MCPD' started by xeshu, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. xeshu

    xeshu New Member

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    Haloz,

    A little background info : I am working as a software developer (about 2 years commercial experience with .net specifically c#). Recently I registered for the MCTS 70-536 exam booked on the 1st july. Only about 13 days left.

    Started of from the MS training kit book. Exam review questions in their really are a joke. However it seems the actual exam question would are entirely different from what they are in the review. Had a look through the demo question from **** etc.

    I know this is going to piss everyone off but before you flame me with the "cheating argument", you must know I have not yet taken that route and was not planning to either. However, I am only curiouse as to wheather that works or not? I know the argument going about: "even if you use braindump you will not perform in reality as you only cramed the question/asnwers". So I know all that stuff, I just need to know weather there is someone here on this forum who acctually HAS taken that route, to shed some light on it. Is it worth it, (the time, money etc).

    Thanks guyz

    Zeeshan
     
  2. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    What do you mean, "is it worth it"? :dry It's cheating, or do you not get that?

    Is it possible to pass an exam by using braindumps? Uh, ya think? Considering they're the actual exam questions, don't you think you could pass by cheating? :rolleyes: Why do you think the vendors don't want you to use them, and will decertify you for life if they suspect you've used them?

    You say you "have not yet taken that route and was not planning to", but your words reveal your intentions. Why do you need to know if braindumps are "worth it" if it's cheating? Isn't that reason enough to avoid them?

    I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've heard all the arguments against it and have already made the decision... you just want someone to rationalize the decision for you. If that's the case, you've come to the wrong place. Braindumping destroys the value of our hard-earned certifications by allowing just anyone to pass the exams... so you won't find much love for them among legitimate techs.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  3. xeshu

    xeshu New Member

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    Okay. Let me clear a few thing.

    A) there is no such thing as decertification. Why? Because its not possible. If you are caught (cheating externally) DURING the exam, thats cheating. Let take a scenario. Person A uses braindumps to prepare for the exam. How on earth is the vendor going to suspect that you used them in the first place? He certainly isnt going to have a dream about so and so cheated? If you are basing the arguments on the fact that person A came out in 10 mintues, well thats pretty baseless as well as he might as well have guessed all the question, still doesnt lead to the conclusion that he used brain dumps.

    So stop intimediating people by this decertification bull. Even if they do find out, somehow through some magical methods, that simply is a breach of data protection. And poses legal issues.

    B) Braindumps can be called cheating only if the vendors are lazy enough to use the same questions again and again. Braindumps are simply past papers, like in all other exams, this is no different.

    C) Dont justify yourself by claiming that braindump users simply destroy the credibility of the users who dont use them. Because on the job, if you dont know how to do your task, certified or not, you wont be able to do it. Using brain dump is another matter, that it doest teach you but it gets your foot on the door. But its the problem of THAT PERSON, not yours or mine or anyone elses. If he cant perform, thats his problem.

    D) The claim for certification to be of value is bull as well. Why? Because, take the 70-536 for example, the exam is mostly about classes and methods, in other words you need to know nearly the entire msdn. Now who on earth acctually does that in reality? If i am stuck someplace, i google it, or find it on msdn. Then the point of the exam is?? Most certs are based on that. You need to cram in order to pass. Anyone who says he hasnt crammed even the slightest bit is a lier.

    Secondly, certs were designed by companies so that they could earn more money. Its a simple method of making money. The real cert value is from the Cisco praticle ones. Because they truely represent that you know something. All the rest are crap as they simmply require a bit of cramming. Absolutly NOTHING to do with logic. So this whole argument against braindump is nonsencial crap as the cert itself requires cramming. If the certs were designed for logic, reason, and other knowledge OTHER then weather if this class can do this or this, i mean seriously, boohoo, you just google it. If its logical, then i will only know the answer if i have some background knowledge to it.

    So if at all big vendors had any concerns regarding this, they would change the patter for the exam. But they know that if they do that, there wont be that many brain dumps, hence not that many test takers, leading to less reveneue. In the end its all about money.

    So braindumps is cheating ONLY if the same questions come again. If they do, its the vendors fault for not comming up with new questions. (i know they all come from a question bank and that it simply isnt possible for every exam to be different, but to find the solution, you dont break the source, you find other routes...that is, if accidents happenm you dont ban driving. Get it!)
     
  4. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    You are merely justifying to yourself, using this forum, that cheating using BDs is OK.

    It isn't. If it was, then MS and Cisco, and every other vendor that fights to stop them wouldn't give two hoots.

    If you're looking for support, then you've come to the wrong place.

    And can I humbly suggest that you adjust your attitude.
     
  5. xeshu

    xeshu New Member

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    If oil companies start telling people the oil has peaked and finishing, people will look for other means and that will be bad for oil businesses.

    Using the same principle, companies cant directly say that they approve of the braindumps, to keep everything going they say its cheating but dont really do much to stop it because they want to keep the certs going. They really dont care if the company who hired the cert guy knows the stuff, because if they honestly did, they would revise the question format and the type of questions. You and I both know that. (you can google on this, it is a heated argument that cert dont really prove much, hence the argument that it does not matter if you took 5 years to pass or 1 day regardless of the method as your worth would be proved on the job)

    I actually need the attitude for the exam. Helps me prepare and push my self. And no, I have not and WILL not use brain dumps because they are like a wild card. If the questions changes, the tables will turn and I cant afford that. So i am putting all my eggs in the exam prepare kit basket :)
     
  6. GiddyG

    GiddyG Terabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Well, if you're properly prepared and you have the day to day experience, then the exam should not be a problem for you.

    It's good to hear that you will not be using BDs.
     
  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I assure you, it is possible, and it happens. If it does not, then how did these people get decertified?

    They don't need proof. They just need the suspicion that you cheated on it. It's *their* certification to bestow or to revoke.

    So... using past papers makes it all okay, right? :dry Let's just forget about trying to understand a concept... let's just study exactly to the exam, more particularly, let's study EXACTLY what will be asked. :rolleyes:

    Dude... just because "past papers" exist doesn't make it right for you to use them.

    The cold, hard fact is this: if you require a braindump to help you pass, then you're not ready to hold the certification.

    So let's say that someone uses braindumps and gets their foot in the door on the basis of their certification. Then their employer discovers that they can't do the job, even though their certification suggests that they should be able to do the job. When that employer subsequently decides to not hire based on the certifications an individual holds, how does this NOT affect those who certify legitimately?

    Braindumping hurts EVERYONE in the IT industry... it hurts employers who trust certification to identify qualified individuals, it hurts those who certify legitimately by devaluing the certification, and it hurts those who use them to cheat by enabling them to pass before they're ready to hold the credential. If you don't think it hurts those of us who certify legitimately, then you're not keeping up with current IT certification trends.

    You're a programmer. Certifications aren't valued as much in programming for another reason: they're not valued because you can PROVE you can program by showing a portfolio of code you have personally developed! Admins have only certifications to show that we have a baseline level of knowledge - we can't bring in a portfolio of sites we have administered.

    Still, programming certifications aren't entirely useless: they still show that you have theoretical knowledge that helps you be a better programmer. If you rely on braindumps, then you really haven't "learned" anything.

    That's wholly false. Do you know how much it costs to create and maintain a certification program? I work in the IT certification industry, and I can tell you, it ain't cheap. Certifications were designed by Microsoft and Novell to increase exposure of their products, creating a virtual army of techs who were knowledgeable enough to support those technologies... a perfect way to market your OS. And THAT is how they make their money. I'd be surprised if Microsoft and Cisco break even on their certification programs themselves. But the side benefit of having techs who can support the technology is HUGE.

    Even Cisco exams can be braindumped - including the practicals. Don't believe it? Go search for them... they exist.

    It's not cost effective for them to do so. Again, it's expensive to create good test questions. And as soon as a new batch of questions are created, they're dumped within days.

    Before you say that thousands of test questions would dissuade people from braindumping, the previous version of the CCNA had 1000 questions, and that didn't stop people from braindumping it.

    If vendors didn't care about braindumps, Microsoft would not have pursued legislation against TK and CertCities would not have pursued legislation against TT. Problem is, braindumps these days are located overseas, out of their legal reach. They can't really do anything about them except decertify people who use them.

    It's... still... cheating. Have some integrity, and tell people to NOT use them. And if you have none, then know that endorsing braindumps is against this forum's policies. :readFAQ

    You've obviously come here with an agenda, but it's full of falsehoods and rationalizations. Whether you choose to braindump or not is up to you. But don't come here telling people that it's OK to do. That's full of crap, and I won't stand for it. Not on a forum I call home. :banned
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  8. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “worth it”? Do you want someone to say they have bought some BDs for X amount of money and it had all the exam answers? If so then I guess they have saved themselves a lot of time preparing for the exam as they didn’t have to bother studying and in regard to cash I guess it could be cheaper as legitimate study materials take time and skilled IT professionals to produce them.

    Glad to hear you are preparing for the exam the right way, when you end the exam and get the pass then you will know that all the time and effort was worth it! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  9. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Even heard the phrase :-

    "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link"?

    how about this one

    "A group can only move as fast as the slowest member" ?

    or this

    "All Rowing in the same direction"?

    or this

    "All Singing from the same hym sheet"?

    It is very difficult for a team to function efficiently if some members are not functioning or incompetent, and believe it or not developing professionally for a living is a team pursuit. Its like being in a band, you have to be good on your own, but you also have to be able to play in harmony with the rest of the band.

    If you don't do your job effectively someone else has to, meaning they have to do your work and theirs ! Worse still should you 'drop the ball', ie they expect you to deliver and you don't and they don't find out till too late, it leads to even worse problems. Thats why good people get paid the big money, because imcompetence and mistakes cost money, thats the original justification for certs/qualifications to try to prove some level of competence.

    Incompetent senior managers can cost companies millions, even more than their salaries, bonues, share options and golden handshakes.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  10. CertGuard

    CertGuard Bit Poster

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    Please. Let ME clear a few thing up for you.

    You are very mistaken. There IS such a thing as "decertification". Haven't you heard?! It's the new trend amongst all the certification vendors. Microsoft and Cisco have started the ball rolling.

    Here is ONE example: Microsoft cracks down on certification exam cheating
    Notice the subtitle: Lifetime bans, sophisticated analysis tools highlight anti-piracy efforts

    Here is another: Cisco tackles certification exam cheating

    But don't listen to us, learn the hard way, please!

    Again, you're mistaken. The vendors have been cycling their exams for years and it doesn't matter how many new exams are released, the questions keep being leaked to people that will pay for them. The goal is to get the people to stop paying for them so that the illicit businesses ultimately shut themselves down.

    Braindumps are FAR from being just "past papers"...although yes, they do include past papers...new braindumps are released often within 24 hours of a brand new exam being released to the test centers. They are questions and answers that have been stolen from live exams and are illegal to use.

    Don't justify cheating by claiming that braindumps don't hurt anyone. When cheaters actually get employed and prove that they know little about the technologies they're certified on, the employers are often soured on ever hiring a person with certifications.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, braindumps are braindumps...read the definition (Braindumps). Just because a person doesn't SEE the question on an exam, doesn't make it legal to use.

    What this all boils down to is what BosonMichael mentioned....morals, ethics, and integrity. If you can't pass the exam with the knowledge you have, then you aren't ready to hold the certification. Instead of cheating, try spending more time working with the technology. Nothing beats good-ole OJT.
     
  11. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    How did I miss this?

    What a tool. Cheating is cheating and Braindumps are braindumps if you can't pas without a braindump then you are not ready and should study more.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  12. nellyp123

    nellyp123 Byte Poster

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    What are braindumps exactly??? I mean, I've heard people say that they are past papers and i have also heard that they are questions memorized by a punch of geeks.

    I do remember though when i was doing my GCSE grades at school (1990) that we used past papers (from three or fours years ago). And if they weren't they where very close to the actual exam. Where these braindumps?? They called them mock exams.....bastards!! Oh crap that will explain why i catn spel!

    I don't intend on getting anymore certs for a while and i wouldn't even think about using anything that promises to give me a pass rate just from memorizing a load of answers. But if there is some sought of...well.....mock exam out there that would give me a rough idea on how the questions are given then i would look at it.
    Actually NO! i wouldn't. I would come on here and ask you lot how the questions are given. (the way the exam is set out that is...e.g.. multiple questions ect...ect..)
     
    Certifications: CIW Professional
  13. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Braindumps are the *actual* exam questions. Avoid 8)
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  14. CertGuard

    CertGuard Bit Poster

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    Nelly, as Sparky stated, braindumps are questions and anwsers from the actual exam.

    To better understand them, you can read http://www.CertGuard.com/braindumps.asp

    In regards to your GCSE papes. No, those were not considered braindumps. Some instititutions (and some Certification Vendors now) publish their questions and answers from past or retired exams to help their candidates. The SAT is a good example of this. Because those questions and answers were published by the copyright owner they are perfectly legal to use.

    It's only when someone other than the copyrighted owner of the Intellectual Property produces the material without consent that they become illegal and called braindumps by the industry.
     
  15. nellyp123

    nellyp123 Byte Poster

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    Cheers for clearing that one up. I had a little read about brain-dumps and will certainly be more aware of them now!!!

    I suppose it's not that bad in regards to the part of this industry that i am trying to break into.....web design that is!
    You can easily show people what you can do if you have a good artist flair and good ideas. You don't need a cert!!
    But i feel for all those who work their socks off in learning web development and networking and get pushed a side by cheats!!!

    They might even be working next to a brain-dumper and not know it.

    I will certainly keep my eyes peeled now for potential web sites that promote brain-dumps!!!


    Thanks.
     
    Certifications: CIW Professional

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