Please help. Self-learning your microsoft certification?

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Hi Sarah,

The company is www.tech-connect.com

However, I have just realised they are a Microsoft Certified Technical Education Centre, and not a Certified Partner. Coming back to a point made by mrobinson52;

"As a former trainer at a Certification Mill, I have to warn you that in all likelihood, if the school is a CTEC, they will just trot you through the exercises in the Microsoft Official Curruiculum (MOC), which is well known to be not NEARLY enough to pass any of the tests"

i am a littled concerned now that I may not have finally found my future training provider. I'm getting so pi**ed off with this. Why is it so hard to find a good company you want to give good money to, that delivers the training that you need?? (this is in NO way a reference to tech-connect, just a statement about the difficulties of finding a good company generally)

Sarah, coming back to your point about the bull***t you believe the training advisor was giving me. He actually said the same as you, that you need a combination of tutor training and self learning to consolidate what has been learnt. Maybe I didn't explain that very well initially. And I have to admit he did not seem at all pushy and was only interested in giving good answers to the questions I put to him. But you never can tell who to trust these days unfortunately.

Are there ANY companies out there that genuinely provide the RIGHT training and are worth the £4000 we have to fork out?

A very disconsolate Coops

 

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OK guys, another update.

Just got off the phone to Microsoft. Tech-connect are not a CTEC, they are a CPLS. The CTEC is outdated (they no longer exist) and the CPLS is an improved status. They even have Microsoft GOLD status and are regarded as top draw. I have spoken to tech-connect and they did not realise they were using an old CTEC logo on their letterheads. A simple administration mistake but one that could have had far reaching consequences if I hadn't had the initiative to call Microsoft and do some homework.

Coops

 

Aw Coops don't get down , things will work themselves out with time. Just have a little faith. I found this at MS you might want to look at.

MCSA or MCSE: Which Certification is Right for You?
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/mcsa_mcse.asp

If you think your leaning more one way than the other towards one of these certs then order a book on it and start studying that way. You will be doing something till you find the right school you want.

I only suggested the comptia certs because they are a good basic foundation to build on if one has no exp and like keith said they are then applyed to MCSA as an elective.

 

This might intrest you. It tells you of self paced trainingkits
Plus alot of this stuff can be found at MS itself. If you need any help locating stuff just give a yell.

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/windows2003/

 

"Sarah, coming back to your point about the bull***t you believe the training advisor was giving me. He actually said the same as you, that you need a combination of tutor training and self learning to consolidate what has been learnt. Maybe I didn't explain that very well initially. And I have to admit he did not seem at all pushy and was only interested in giving good answers to the questions I put to him. But you never can tell who to trust these days unfortunately."

Sorry I just get over excited!!!

It's difficult for me to give advice without advertising my own company but I would RECCOMEND you contact these companies - these are the TOP 5 in the UK: (IT Training Mag 2005)

1) QA
2) IBM
3) Parity
4) Learning Tree
5) InterQuad

As I said it's difficult for me to give inderpendant advice sometimes as I work for one of these companies - but if you want to email me or call me I can try my best!

 

Thanks for the recommendations Sarah. I'm sure they are great companies. Are you aware the rankings are based on revenue? Whilst this can be an indication that they are producing good quality training and thus generating more revenue, achieving a high ranking based on this can have a lot to do with business accumen. There are other, smaller, less revenue generating companies out there that may produce as good if not better quality training, but on a lesser scale.

Just a few thoughts.

 

No, they really do offer good high quality training. If you will notice companies like Computeach are not even listed! I've been working in the industry for years and regardless of who I work for it's key to know who are the good guys and who are bad!

I've got a bit confused what are you actually looking for Coops?

I'd also always reccommend looking at what your local college has to offer.

 

Yeah I think we kinda got off track didn't we. I think that's natural. These topics throw up all kinds of points (excellent ones too) and when you address them, it can kinda lead away from the original topic (it was about the practicalities of self learning btw)

I'm looking towards doing MCSA/MCSE. I'm contemplating doing A+ first to give me a good foundation to build on, then lead into the MCP.

I've decided i'm worth investing in and will be going down the classroom based training with self learning to consolidate.

I've made my decision on the company and i'm happy with it. Microsoft seemed to give them a glowing reference, and their prices are very competitive, plus they have local offices

coops

 

Have you decided on www.tech-connect.com?

 

Yes, I'm going with them based on their reputation within Microsoft and their quality of advice given by their advisors. Also their costs are within my budget.

Coops

 

Hi Coops!

My info is a bit dated on the CTEC, since I was let go in 2001. But the MOC is really classroom exercises, and not enough to pass the tests. It is good for getting some hands on though.

I am afraid that I have to disagree with my daughter Mitzs on the Training books from MS. All they are is watered down versions of the Microsoft Server Resource kit, which is expensive and boring, but a GREAT reference book for working admins. You can get all the info that is in the books online by going to Server 2000 Resource Kits or Server 2003 Resource Kit

Sarah mentioned your local junior college. I also recommend this as many companies now want you to have a college degree in addition to the certs. If you do not have experience, a college degree can help keep your cv from ending up in the shredder.

There are good an bad cert training outfits, and you are right, it is hard to tell which is which. Does this centre offer job placement also? That can help you get your foot in the door.

And a further word on A+ and Network+. They really do help make a lot of the other training more understandable. I have found that at least a quarter of the questions in my MS tests I have answered from my knowledge of A+ or Network+, not from any of the MCSE specific training or studies I did.

One other consideration is that not all shops are Microsoft only. Microsoft wants you to use a Server 2003 computer as a router. That is the way to answer their tests too, like this is a great idea. In reality, most companies have Cisco or other routers. Some might also have (gasp)Novell or Linux machines in the mix. Learning only how Microsoft does networking will not help you in places that have a mix of systems. Network+, which is vendor neutral will.

 

Just a note
Our college system is somewhat different to that of the americans, and a college course will not lead to a degree here, some colleges offer professional qualifications such as CCNA/MCSE but these are not counted as, or towards degrees

however saying that, working in IT here does not generally involve a degree (bar the big boys whos general HR policy requires one) so its not such a big deal as it is stateside

 

Hopefully it will stay that way for you. But with the multinationals taking over worldwide, this might become a worldwide plague like the outsourcing to less expensive countries.

The colleges here have certificate programs, 2 year degrees ( called Associate degrees) and 4 year degrees (Bachelor degrees). I am going back to school after lo these many decades to get an Associate degree in Computer Security and then a Bachelors in Network Management. When I first went to college in the 1970's, the only computer degrees were in Engineering.

 

I also never did a bachelors degree (3 years here) as at the time it was mostly geared towards programming
however i'm going back to school to do my masters in information security (2 year part time, 1 year full time)

I aggree about the global plague however things generally have a way of leveling themselves out when the balance is swung too far out of center

 

I would take this advice with a slight pinch of salt if I were you Coops. A few years ago it would have been true, but I don't think so now as people qualified in certs are much more common, and of course there are plenty of 'paper MCSE's' out there. If you aren't familiar with the term, it's those people who have by various methods managed to gain certifications by learning how to pass the tests rather than acually truly understanding the material, thus the value of the certs have dropped.

So whereas a decent cert might get you an interview for a job, when you come up against people who have got a cert like an MCSA, or an MCSE + experience then just a cert by itself is not going to get you the job.

Well that's my opinion anyway, and don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not worth having a cert, or worth going for one. I'd just rather you didn't think that you could walk into a good IT job because of what this guy told you over the phone.

Also, the comments on the A+. It is a two part cert, one part hardware and one part OS related. So the guy from the company didn't sound that well informed to me when he suggested it's only for people who are going to be fixing PC's etc... As others have mentioned, it can provide an excellent grounding in many area's and would definitely stand you in good stead if you are coming from a background of little experience in IT.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide. There will always be this forum for any questions you have when you get going with whatever route you decide to take with your training.

 

I agree that the pendulum needs to swing back to centre, but I have found that the pendulum returns to centre a bit too late for a lot of us to wait!

I also have about 3 years of college. The good news is that many of the units I took are still good an will help to shorten the time it takes to get my degrees.

I wish I could be a professional student. I love learning!

 

Good Choice

 

Just make sure you do your research on ANY shcool you choose to attend.

Had I done that I would have avoided the mess I'm in now from this post.

 

I agree with Mitz on this I think your jumping in too deep if you have no experience with networks or PC hardware. An MCSA & MCSE are premium IT Certs that only people with handson experience should in the real world undertake. It's very difficult to understand the workings of Active Directory, Exchange, Network Architecture from reading books. Even with class time they simply can't teach you everything you need to know. I would have a rethink and do your A+ and Network+ first which gives you a good understanding of Hardware, Software and Networking and will hopefully get your foot in the door and from there you can start to think about your MCSA and MCSE.