1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Opinion needed, MCITP or MCSE and upgrade to MCITP?

Discussion in 'Windows Server 2003 / 2008 / 2012 Exams' started by tizak, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. tizak

    tizak New Member

    4
    0
    1
    Hi all, I am 7 months into a 14 month network administration course that covers A+, CCNA, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008, Unix, Linux and Novell Netware. My mind is turning toward certification, CCNA is a given and I will also be taking the Windows 7 cert, I would to at least start working toward a Windows Server cert. I have been leaning toward MCSE and then taking the two upgrade exams for MCITP. My rational is twofold, I note that MCSE is still more requested than a MCITP certification on job search sites and there will be a requirement to know both Servers 2003 and 2008 for organizations to transition to Server 2008. Many in my class are focused on MCITP, I would like some feedback on a preferred certification path.
     
  2. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    How long have you worked in IT?
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  3. tizak

    tizak New Member

    4
    0
    1
    Hi, thanks for getting back to me, I have worked about 6 months in desktop support for an organization. I do recognize that either the MCSE or MCITP can take some time but I would like to start working towards the system administrator role.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  4. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Certifications don't qualify you to do a certain job... certifications are designed to show that you already have the real-world experience with those jobs.

    I would recommend that you scan through the numerous threads on the forum that discuss the value of certifications without experience. The information you seek can certainly be found here. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  5. tizak

    tizak New Member

    4
    0
    1
    Hi, I would still like an opinion on whether the MCSE or MCITP certification track is the right way to go, I do have some IT experience, I also recognize that either certification track can take some time and I do intend to start testing toward one of the certs, so I would appreciate some feedback.
     
  6. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

    14,283
    254
    329
    Technically you should be going for certs that go with your experience level. General starting certs are A+,N+ and MCDST the you could do the windows 7 upgrade to make you an MCTS and doing the vista one make you MCITP.

    You should definetly not do the MCSE, Microsoft state that you should have atleast 12-18 months experience as a systems engineer before attempting the MCSE.

    Experience is also required for the MCITP where as the starting certs don't really need much experience at all.

    Note that having high level certs without the required experience makes you a paper certified person and this does not look good to employers because as Boson Michael has rightly pointed out certifications are designed to show your experience level (thats in a job not on a course or with a home lab) and being over certified can harm your employment prospects.

    You should certify in what you work with but only to a certain point. i.e if you do desktop support in windows xp then do MCDST if you work with windows 7 do the MCDST and the windows 7 upgrade.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  7. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

    10,831
    357
    341
    Personally, I would say the MCSE then the upgrade track.

    However like BM already said "Certifications don't qualify you to do a certain job... certifications are designed to show that you already have the real-world experience with those jobs."

    Besides the MCSE's designs, implements, and administers infrastructures which is slightly different from desktop support.

    However going back to your question... Old track then upgrade.

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  8. billyr

    billyr Kilobyte Poster

    262
    20
    35
    Answering your actual question, I'd definately stick with the 2003 track for now, you can always start on the MCITP upgrade track if you find yourself in a Server 2008 environment.
     
    Certifications: CCNP, CCSI, MCSE W2k/W2k3, MCITP_SA
    WIP: Taking it easy for a while.
  9. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    If/When you have a year of server admin experience, the MCSE track is the way to go. Until then, you should focus on entry-level certifications, such as the A+, Network+, and MCDST.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. tizak

    tizak New Member

    4
    0
    1
    Thanks for everyone replying, I definitely appreciate Boson Michael pointing out that the certification points to mastery of real world experience, and indeed, I do recognize and will be pursuing entry level certifications with an interest, medium to long term, in specializing in server management. I also realize that obtaining either a MCSE or MCITP enterprise server cert along with the required experience, and to be considered more than a paper certified net admin will take a couple of years in the field.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  11. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Props to you for doing the research necessary to make a solid, informed decision. :) I wish you well on your studies!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. ajbritton

    ajbritton New Member

    6
    0
    1
    I originally wrote a long post challenging some opinions on this thread but rather than imposing this on everyone, I would like instead to offer my own situation for comment;

    I have worked in IT for almost 30 years. My roots go back to Novell NetWare, NT 3, NT4, Win2K etc. For many years I avoided MS certification, feeling my experience was what mattered most. Finally, in 2007 I went for MCSE 2003 and got it.

    Almost immediately after this I moved into a management role and for the last 3 years have been away from the front line. I'm now facing potential redundancy and would like to revert back to a technical role. I'm looking to upgrade my MCSE to MCITP EA. The opinions in this thread would seem to suggest that this is not to be advised as I have no Win2K8 experience. Would this really be of no value at all when going back into the job market?
     
  13. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,189
    296
    319
    Server 2008 builds on Server 2003 so it’s not like you would be starting from scratch when taking the upgrade exams – also you have a wealth of experience to help you.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  14. ajbritton

    ajbritton New Member

    6
    0
    1
    Thanks again Sparky. I'm thinking I can have a reasonable crack at passing the exams. My reason for posting in this thread was to see if I should be taking them. Opinion here seems to be that you only take certs when you already have the relevant experience. That said, I do agree that a large percentage of what's in 2008 is also in 2003....

    All opinions welcome.
     
  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    On the contrary, it would be quite valuable, because you are adding the theoretical knowledge to your real-world admin experience. What we dissuade people from doing is pursuing the MCITP: EA with no previous experience administering servers of any sort.

    There are some differences between Server 03 and Server 08, but with your Server 03 experience, you shouldn't have much trouble. Of course, having a certification with no Server 08 experience isn't as good as having Server 08 experience... but it shows that you have the theoretical knowledge to know those differences, which can be combined with your real-world knowledge of older OSes to get you up to speed fairly quickly.

    All that said, most companies still use Server 2003 (and many have 2000 Server in their infrastructure!), so even if you don't have the MCITP: EA, you should be fairly attractive to employers.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. ajbritton

    ajbritton New Member

    6
    0
    1
    Thanks for the reply - that's really useful.

    That's interesting. The company where I work undertook a major transformation project just over 3 years ago to move onto consolidated 2003 server farms and are now looking to start rolling out 2008 R2. Aim of this is to make use of enhanced terminal server capabilities, NAP, support for Win 7 clients etc.

    Thanks again.

    Andy
     
  17. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

    3,120
    51
    154
    Windows server 2003 would still be around for a while so it makes sense to build up on this cert wise. On the other hand if your environment would be taking advantage of Windows server 2008 whistles and bells then studying for it would not be a bad idea too.
     
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  18. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    That's the key: "looking to start rolling out 2008 R2". Are they completely eliminating Server 2003 from their infrastructure? Most companies aren't... there will continue to be a few scattered 2003 boxen at most companies for years to come. I can almost guarantee that my previous employer still has a couple of Windows 2000 boxes up and running. No reason to spend hundreds (or thousands) to upgrade a system that is running well and doing the job it was designed to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  19. bogus1195

    bogus1195 Bit Poster

    40
    1
    17
    Thanks for the Inputs here

    Gotta a question ( mostly aimed at Boson )

    Boson : as you mentioned "" Certifications don't qualify you to do a certain job... certifications are designed to show that you already have the real-world experience with those jobs. ""

    Well correct if i have a wrong perception

    How can i better myself and get a better job when i dont have any certs or the oppourtunity to learn new tech @ work, The only way i see is if i get certfied in technology XYZ this might lead / offer me a chance in a job where i can work/deploy / technology XYZ

    so i feel that getting certs without experience is to show potential employers that i can / have the knowledge to do the job ..

    Am i right:rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: CCNA ,MCP
    WIP: Windows 7 -- 70 - 680
  20. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Getting certs without experience can show potential employers that you can pass an exam or series of exams, which indicates that you have the theoretical knowledge of a technology. But you would still lack the practical, hands-on, real-world experience that employers desire.

    Is having certifications without experience better than having no certifications AND no experience? Absolutely. My point is that having certifications without experience isn't going to get you a job over someone with experience (whether they're certified or not). And those experienced techs are out there competing for those jobs. By all means, apply for them. But be realistic in your expectations of what that certification is going to do for you without experience.

    EDIT: There's one point of yours that I didn't address: how to get a better job if you can't learn new tech at work. The answer to that is to take a similar position in another company - one where you CAN learn new tech at work. Sometimes, the way to move forward is to first move sideways.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

Share This Page

Loading...