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OMG! This can't be...

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by millsie, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. millsie

    millsie Byte Poster

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    How things are!

    2 weeks ago I applied for an entry level (or so I thought) IT position, taking and logging calls, with the opportunity for some training to Microsoft levels such as MCDST etc.

    I had a good chat with the agency who told me all about the postition, it sounded perfect for me, someone wanting to start out in the industry. You didnt need specific experience, and lent itself to being very customer oriented, which I am having a vast amount of CS jobs on my CV.

    I wasnt even shortlisted, but at least got an email telling me so, many of which you dont get from these agencies, just no response at all normally!

    Anyways, I accepted that there was probably stiff competition, and it just wasnt my time.

    But, just today I got a newsletter from the agency, telling me how many applications had been made for this position.....

    1132!!!!!!!

    I just cannot believe it, and refuse to believe the industry can be so full of people wanting to get into an entry level job like this, probably on as little as £16,000 in London to boot! it really is upsetting, of course I appreciate that there are many IT professionals out of work, but they should be going for higher level jobs surely?


    So this has really given me some thinking to do, is there another way in? Could I get a job as say an Admin assistant for example, in an IT company so that I'm already in the company and go internally? Surely using the knowledge I'm building up in certs like N+ and CCNA and also MCDSt they would love to get me onto the helpdesk eventually? I'd be useful, I would!

    Yours, Worried...

    Millsie
     
    Certifications: N+, CCNA, MCDST
    WIP: CCNP route 642-902
  2. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

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    You could try, but you'd then be up against the other 1131 applicants. The problem is because there's a lot of skilled IT guys with experience out of work, the ones with no skills or experience don't even get a look in the door.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685
  3. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    IT is one of the hardest industries to get in to, you just need to keep trying.

    I believe wargnerk took 5 years before he got in, it took me 8 with a 3 year gap.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  4. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Sometimes the best way in is it take a non-IT job and apply internally. Look at volunteer work too to build a CV up. Oh and yeah, the figures are correct I suspect. Check Reed.co.uk out, they tell you how many have gone for each job
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  5. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    Over a 1000? I would say that is down to the area (being London) and I do not think that number is representative of the entire country. 7 million people in one **** hole remember :(

    Personally, these days it would have to be a ridiculously good offer for me to accept a job in London. That place is just not worth bothering with.

    I think it is going to be just as much of a struggle getting an Admin Assistant job, if not worse. You are literally going to have to plug away until you get a bite.

    Good luck mate.
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  6. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    I knew a guy who started in an insurance broker as an office type (ie non it related), after a couple of years he moved into IT and ended up as their Team Leader, however he has since left IT to become a Black Cab driver.

    As far as applicants goes, actually I can believe it. I know a couple of agents and it's not unusual to receive in excess of 500 applicants for high level positions.

    I have always found the best way to get noticed is actually to phone up a couple of minutes after sending the CV and chatting with either the agent or their resourcer, it gets them to remember you and generally puts you above the people who simply email.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  7. DapperDan

    DapperDan Nibble Poster

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    I was speaking to a recruiter the other day, and I must have repeated about four times that I am employed and in the IT industry already. The job I enquired about wasn't an entry level one, but she said too bad I'm not unemployed (I can't recall too many occasions I've heard the term 'unemployed' referred to as a positive :rolleyes:).

    It seems as if that if you're employed and looking to make another move in this industry, you're up against it. Especially if there is someone of equal skill who's unemployed as they have the advantage of starting straight away as opposed to 4/6 weeks time. But in general, it's tough getting an IT job regardless of the circumstances of each person.
     
    Certifications: ITIL v3; A+, Network+
  8. millsie

    millsie Byte Poster

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    Cheers for the responses peeps,

    I still cannot understand why the IT industry is so huge and there is no openings whatsoever for a newbie. I mean, its not as if I want to be in a famous rock band up against all the other rock bands that exist, or worse, a cheesy hollywood actor, now thats GOT to be a closed shop!

    I dont honestly believe that to get into IT, you need to have a degree, like most industries, a degree ends up not really worth much and thats a fact. So someone willing, and well experienced in customer services, with some basic certs can't get a look in. Of course its a popular business IT, and its growing, well, I think it is.

    They keep going on in the papers about us "riding the crest of a wave"! With all the new web based companies starting, and all the ISP's supporting them and growing themselves, why is there over 1000 people up for 1 job?

    What to do...
     
    Certifications: N+, CCNA, MCDST
    WIP: CCNP route 642-902
  9. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    You don't need a degree, I left school at 16 and joined the army, I don't have a degree (infact I don't even have an English qualification because I was truant from school at the time). Just have the patience and confidence in yourself and it will happen.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
    WIP: VCP6-CMA, VCAP-DCD and Linux + (and possibly VCIX-NV).
  10. greenbrucelee
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    There are lots of people trying to get into IT. Some because of training provider adverts mentioning the 37k a year bollocks and some because they love computers and technology.

    This is why IT is inundated with retards who are just after a quick buck and ofcourse people who have cheated their way in using braindumps. They get found out in the end but not after they have devalued the industry even more than the ones before them.

    You just need to keep trying and stay dedicated.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  11. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    There are certainly some experienced IT guys looking for work... but the problem of getting an entry-level IT job is because of all the career changers trying to jump onto the IT bandwagon.

    There are plenty of traditional and non-traditional ways into IT. I've known quite a few people, from admin assistants to sales reps to finance managers, who have switched over into the IT department of the company where they work. They're a known quantity to an employer, and thus a safer bet, whereas someone coming off the street is largely an unknown quantity.

    The A+, Network+, and MCDST can certainly help you out and get you a helpdesk job... but the CCNA isn't relevant to helpdesk work. The CCNA is a relatively advanced certification that covers Cisco router administration... which is typically done by experienced network techs, not entry-level helpdesk techs. I can count the toes on one hand the number of entry-level techs who I have known to have administered Cisco gear...

    So why wouldn't the CCNA be more attractive to an entry-level employer? After all, it's more advanced, right? The problem is that you don't need those skills or that knowledge for an entry-level IT job. Allow me to explain.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a McDonalds manager who is hiring. You don't need a lot of skill or knowledge to be a fry cook, do you? What if I applied for your job and handed you a CV that says I have a Masters in Business Administration? Surely my knowledge would be useful in helping you run your franchise! But... that's not what you need... you need someone to drop fries in the cooker. And you can't afford to pay a fry cook more than a fry cook's wages. And even if that wage were acceptable to me, the applicant, wouldn't I be apt to leave as soon as a better job came along? And then you'd be left to look for, hire, and train another fry cook all over again.

    See the analogy?

    Get your A+, Network+, and MCDST, and be persistent in applying for these entry-level IT jobs. Yes, there's a lot of competition. The best that you can do is to make yourself look more attractive than your competition by being well-suited for an entry-level IT job. And those certifications do that.

    If you're not getting interviews, have people look over your CV. Pay for advice if you must, though there is good, free advice out there - the problem is discerning the good from the bad. If you're getting interviews, but still not getting hired, work on your interview skills - again, pay for advice if you must. If your salary expectations are getting in the way, adjust them if at all possible.

    Only one other piece of advice I've got for you. The reason why 1132 people applied for that job is because 1132 people knew about that job. If you're ONLY looking for jobs that are listed in newspapers and on online job search sites, you're looking for jobs the same place that EVERYONE ELSE is looking for them in. If you want to eliminate most of your competition, go looking for those "hidden" IT jobs... ones that aren't yet advertised or are about to come available. IT techs generally know about these jobs: "Hey, one of our help desk techs is moving in April, and we might be needing a replacement!" If you could get on the inside track, the company might be able to save money advertising for the position.

    So how do you find them? Meet other IT techs who are in the industry. Here, for example. You can also join IT professional organizations to meet them. Networking - not with wires, but with people - is an extremely important and often overlooked aspect of IT.

    Hope this helps. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  12. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    If there were higher level job's they probably would, but most likely they are facing the same amount of competition at that level too.

    1000+ people applying for a vancancy, that is believable. We had a QD store open in our area, and there where well over 1000 people applying for 80 vancancies.

    That's true, now I'm an IT manager :biggrin

    If IT is what you want to get into, just continue to plug away at it. Use every available resource: volunteering, networking with other IT Pro's, the jobcentre, local & national newspapers, your local council websites, recruitment agencies, job sites, etc...

    No one said that it was going to be easy to get into IT. Especially since while the UK is "out of recession", companies are still making redundancies.

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  13. Alex399

    Alex399 Byte Poster

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    Ive always wondered what these Braindumps actually are as Ive heard them been mentioned a few times now, I searched quick on google and from what I can see people post the questions they get in there exams on the internet from memory and that is what using a braindump is?
    I really don't have the slightest clue what they are other what I read briefly on google... :oops:
     
    WIP: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST
  14. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    link!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  15. Josiahb

    Josiahb Gigabyte Poster

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    Thats essentially it, actually exam material published in clear violation of the examiners NDA. People who use them are usually refered to using the technical term of 'arsehole'. Unfortunately because some hiring managers, recruitment agencies etc don't care and/or understand this they do occasionally get refered to as 'IT manager' until they make some monumental balls up, get fired and leave the company in question with a seriously devalued view of certification as a whole.
     
    Certifications: A+, Network+, MCDST, ACA – Mac Integration 10.10
  16. simonp83

    simonp83 Kilobyte Poster

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    I have also been into IT and computing but spent a few years stacking shelfs at Morrisons after college, then a mate gives me a call and asks me if i want to replace him, he moved onto bigger and better things, as an IT Tech for a small computer shop in the centre of town, spent 2 and half years there and then moved up from there.

    Sometimes, the best way into IT isn't what you know but also who you know as well, friend of mine got a £32,000 a year job as a field technician for one of the county police forces and he had no certs and just worked as an IT Tech with me at the shop, he got it purely because he knew the guy who ran the IT Dept and was known to dabble with computing and small home networks. The IT dept for the police force had originally had a falling out with one of their new recruits who was a recent IT graduate who didn't know basic troubleshooting so was given the boot out the door at the end of 4 weeks of starting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
    Certifications: A+, MCP, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP
    WIP: 70-291
  17. j1mgg

    j1mgg Kilobyte Poster

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    It is a tough climate out there and everyone needs to earn some money. If you are a 2nd line or 3rd line person out of work then you are going to apply for these first line jobs to pays the bills. There is plenty of people that are trying to get into IT for all differents reasons. I do think alot of people now think because they passed an exam they have the god damn given right to a job in IT.

    As BosonMichael said it could be down to other things, CV etc

    All you can do is keep trying and maybe get a cert like the A+ or mcdst, as you will not be doing much network troubleshooting on a 1st line helpdesk role.
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+, ITIL V3 Foundation, MCDST, 70-270, 70-290
    WIP: 70-291, security+ and SSCP
  18. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    That amount of applicants for one position is not surprising not especially after the recession.
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  19. orangepeeleo

    orangepeeleo Nibble Poster

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    What you've got to ask yourself is how many of those applicants were really, and i mean REALLY, ever standing a chance, just have confidence in yourself dude. If you know that you can do the job your applying for and have conveyed it well enough in a CV then don't lose heart just because of the quantity of competition, the quality may not be there and the cream will rise to the top eventually!

    I'm leaving the army in less than a month and should be worried sick given that i have no job to walk out into, every job i apply for on reed has 50+ applicants, but i don't care, b/c i know i have the exp, i have (a) cert, which is relevant to the jobs i'm going for, and i'm hugely confident in my people skills, i honestly believe that if i had 3 interviews next week that i'd be offered the job from 2 of them. This is a really difficult time for jobhunters but, and this sounds like a bad disney movie, if you believe in yourself and put the effort in then you'll get what you want eventually. I know that IT is the career for me and a lot of competition isnt going to stop me from getting my foot in the door.... because i'm better than the competition :D
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: N+
  20. DapperDan

    DapperDan Nibble Poster

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    For sure. It is very much an employers market out there at the minute.
     
    Certifications: ITIL v3; A+, Network+

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