No longer passionate about the job

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I'd love your advice on how exactly one might do that ?

The 'ill imformed' recruiter might have access to the job you want, some companies do deals with large agencies. Recruiters tend to specialise in one location or sector, they also move on, so if you do find a good one, time you need your next job, chances are they're not available.

Recruiters seem to be motivated generally by money, not for any other interest, so how does one find a good one ? The one demanding the highest commission ?

HR departments don't generally have a good handle on good vs bad recruiters in my experience meanng theres very little differentiation.

I my mind you have very little option but to play a numbers game most of the time and agents generally do the same.

 

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Uh... shop around for them? If they're ***good***, they'll have access to jobs that you'll want.

I've had experiences with good ones and bad ones. I can tell the difference. You can too!

If they're good, keep track of them.

Good ones are motivated by matching up employers with qualified applicants, which naturally, will bring money... AND repeat business.

As a candidate, you don't pay the commission... that's all handled between the employer and the recruiter. Thus, you don't look for recruiters with certain fees. Truth be told, if a recruiter asks you, the employee, for a fee or commission, turn around and walk out.

How do you find a good one? If they match you up quickly and easily with employers who are offering jobs that are applicable to your skill level, and they pay attention to what you tell them, and most importantly, if they ultimately help you get a job at a fair wage, THAT is a good recruiter.

More importantly, this is how you spot a potentially bad one:

• The recruiter gets you an interview for a network admin/Exchange admin/GPO admin job even though you haven't worked with those technologies (or perhaps even in IT at all)
• The recruiter gets you an interview for an entry-level job even though you've worked in IT for years and years
• The recruiter doesn't know what an MCSA certification is.
• The recruiter doesn't know the difference between an A+ and an MCSE.
• The recruiter repeatedly forgets that you told them that you require two weeks notice (I speak from experience: this happened to me with a recruiter)
• The recruiter asks you to pay a fee or commission.
• The recruiter never has any jobs for you, but they always say they're "still looking".
• The recruiter always lowballs you for the absolute minimum salary you told them you'd take. (For a few jobs, I can understand, but every time?)
• The recruiter has absolutely no recommendations for your CV/resume or for your career development.

...and the list goes on and on.

The HR department doesn't always deal with recruiters. Every place I've worked, the IT manager worked directly with the recruiter. Your mileage may vary.

There is a numbers game. But there are good recruiters and there are bad recruiters... just like there are good techs and bad techs.

Hope this helps!

 

Not neccessarilly if they are a small independant, and the bigger companies don't hold good recruiters for long...

As a contractor the agent effectively takes a cut out of my potential hourly rate typically 15-20%.

Theres no shortage of jobs I could do, them finding me one i want to do is another issue...

Generally they offer the jobs they want to offer you, in order to win commission, that they think is the easiest sell, or that they can't place...

Happens all the time to me from many agencies.

Most recruiters in my experience do not know the meaning of any acronyms or buzzords on CV's, you're lucky if they can pronouce or spell the stuff...

Its common practice for recruiters to harrass people and mine CV's, often their motive for ringing you is not to find you a job at all...

Agents are middle men, they work the margins, in my experience they ALWAYS offer the minimum they think they can get away with...

Fair point. Same here IT managers work direct, they also don't necessarilly track good recruiters, which seems a little strange but it is true.

Its east to spot bad recruiters, I've often refused recruiters from representing me, whats not easy is to spot GOOD ones...

thanks for the advice...

 

Then if they're a small independent, they're not good for you, because they don't have access to the jobs you need.

Doesn't matter if the bigger companies hold on to good recruiters or not... you stay in contact with the good recruiter and follow them.

Hey, man, if you don't want to follow this advice, you can continue to struggle with recruiters... I happen to have success with this method. [/quote]

Are you getting paid a fair wage for that level job? If so, then the money the recruiter is making is irrelevant. That's the company's cost for choosing to go through a recruiter.

Exactly. The good ones will find you jobs that match what you're looking for.

Then that's a bad one. NEXT!

Then that's a bad one. NEXT!

I never said most of them were good. ;)

It is if they want to make money! They don't get paid if they don't match up employers with employees!

Then you've found the bad ones. I had a recruiter that offered me more than my minimum. Should I ever need to look for a job again, I'll know who to call. For the record, she is no longer with the company she was with. ;)

Not strange at all. Just like some IT techs don't know how to spot a bad recruiter, some IT managers don't know how to spot a bad recruiter. Some simply look at the cheapest out there... which is usually NOT the best recruiter for the job.

Once an employer finds out how *good* it is to work with a *good* recruiter, they rarely go back. You get what you pay for.

There's not a ton of them out there. When you find a good one, latch on. If the one you are working with is not a good one... don't settle; keep looking. They do exist.

 

Every day people in the world starve, while others make billions, who can say what is 'fair' ?

By the way recruiters in the UK can earn £150-£200K...

First rule of negotiation :- Never admit your minimum.

If necessary just give them your maximum or call them out...

For the record I found my last job myself, was easier than going through a recruiter in the end, and meant no 20% commission... Companies often have a set rate they will not go above so in reality the agents cut does come from the same pool.

 

A fair wage is how much you could get on your own (without a recruiter) doing the same job.

Doesn't matter how much recruiters make; that's irrelevant to this discussion. Again, that's the company's cost of using a recruiter. If you're making a fair wage for that job, you're not paying that cost. If you're not making a fair wage for that job, then you're with the wrong recruiter.

...unless they ask you for that information, and won't/can't help you without it. After all, if you won't accept jobs making less than 30K, then the recruiter is wasting his/her time trying to find you jobs for less than that. Gotta look at this from the recruiters point of view.

In principle, I agree with you. However, keep in mind that if you DO give a salary range, and the recruiter doesn't lowball you the whole way... then you've probably got a GOOD recruiter. Thus, revealing your minimum enables you to discern whether the recruiter wants what is best for you or best for them. You want one who wants what is best for YOU.

In my last two jobs, my employer knew that was the cost of using a recruiter. They knew my range, they exceeded the minimum, AND they paid the commission to the recruiter. The $12K each of them spent did NOT come off the top of my salary. After all, the $12K was a one-time fee, and my salary is yearly. Whether I stayed on for a month or a year, the recruiter still made the same.

Thus... THAT is the kind of situation you want... not one where your salary is sliced by 20%.

 

Well this only happened to me the first time I got into IT several years ago on a 6 month contract.

After that I told them in writing that their agents fee was their problem, and my expected or desired rate was X.

I ended up telling a couple of body shops that from my POV they needed to market my expertise for specific roles rather than just punching my CV and several others at a vacancy shot gun fashion.

Basically if a candiate for a job has a good skill set with good experience then they will always be put forward.

 

My point was by becomming my 'own agent' on contracts I free up an additional 20% of head space in which to up my rate, going through an agent would leave no 'head space' and would result in my rate capped at 20% below the companies maximum day rate.

This is a very strange definition of 'fair' comming from a christian. I think you are assuming countries with fair labour laws, you could live in a country where labour exploitation is common, the 'market rate' could therefore be anything but 'fair'.

 

That's different from how it is in the States, then. In fact, contractors are usually paid more since permanent employees are given benefit packages.

How do my religious beliefs have anything to do with what a fair wage is? If you are in a country where there are no fair labor laws, you choose whether you do the job for that salary or not. If you don't like the salary, go elsewhere.

All that said, that's not really an issue in IT, neither in the US nor in the UK... we're not paid peanuts. Even at the bottom of the IT career ladder, one can survive in our countries.