1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NITLC or Computeach? LOOOONNG!!!!

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Uruloke, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. Uruloke

    Uruloke Nibble Poster

    63
    0
    16
    Hey guys, sorry for the long post, but I would really like some input...

    The sales guy from NITLC left about an hour ago, and now I have a decision to make, do I go with Computeach or NITLC?

    NITLC offer the following 2 Options:
    • A+
    • Network+
    • MCSE
    • CCNA
    All the above for £3900, or:
    • Security+
    • MCSE: Security
    The above for £4400

    Computeach offer:
    • A+
    • Security+
    • MSCE: Security
    This course, costs £5200

    Now, going by cost - and cost only - I would of course have to choose NITLC. NITLC however, do not offer a free re-sit should I fail any of the exams; they do not offer any funding towards accommodation while studying at their Centre, which is in Newark (Nottingham-ish); the bulk of their course materials are on paper, not online or on CD; I will be required to have two PC's networked to each other (which I have at the moment, but one PC is not mine and I may not have it in the near future); and NITLC will require me to write a 'project' essay, WTF???

    Computeach on the other hand, do offer a free re-sit (subject to terms and conditions though); they will pay £20 per night towards the cost of accommodation while studying at their Centre in Dudley which is a fair bit closer to me; more time (24 days) is spent in workshops at their centre getting hands on experience than at NITLC (13 days); the bulk of their course materials are on CD or online, which I prefer, study manuals however are also provided should I need them; I don't need to have two pc's, just the one will do; and they will not require me to write any projects or whatever.

    The guy from NITLC was quite different to the guy from Computeach. The Computeach salesman was upfront, honest (at least he seemed genuine, mark of a good salesman eh?) and in his own words "shot from the hip". The NITLC salesman kept contradicting himself, he'd say "this is brand new no-ones really done this yet" then later on he'd say, "Quite a few people have done it over the last three years". I also know he's lying about how 'new' the MCSE Security and Security+ Certifications are, he also told me "No-one's got them yet!" I'm sure quite a few people have them.

    About that 'Project'. The NITLC guy told me that a written project is great to show future employers, he even showed me an example. I was not impressed with what I saw. To me it looked like something I could write now with a just a little research, a lot of 'copy and pasting' and then 're-wording'. It was pages and pages and pages of written bollocks!! An employers gonna look at that and think "boring" and bin it!!! Computeach look - at least to me - to have a more practical 'hands-on' approach to learning.

    When the Computeach salesman left my house I had a good feeling about the whole thing, when the NITLC salesman left... well I didn't have a bad feeling, but I didn't have a good feeling either. When the guy from NITLC asked me if I wanted him to see if he could "secure" me a place on the course, I said yes, as I want to keep my options open and did not want to make a quick decision, I ahave also been 'accepted; for the computeach course, I haven't signed anything yet though so at this stage I have no agreement with either provider. Eitherway I should not make my decision based simply on my impressions of the salesmen, they were both consumate gentlemen and were very polite.

    If you read all that, god bless you. The question now is, which provider do I choose? :hhhmmm I am not asking someone to choose for me, I think I already have my mind made up, but I'm looking to see if anyone can offer some general advice, past experiences with both providers etc..

    Thanks in advance guys! :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: GNVQ (Going Nowhere Very Quickly!)
  2. Tyler D

    Tyler D Gigabyte Poster

    1,224
    8
    85
    Ok Uruloke,as you say we cant choose for you,that decision is your's.
    I am currently with Computeach,have been for 10 months.I recently spent a week at dudley for my A+,and came away very impressed with the facilities that they have there.The hands on training was spot on,and all students will tell you that the tutors are first class.

    Since i have been with them they have gone some way to improving the services they offer,a revamped student website,Tutors available in the chatrooms on a day to day basis,Mock exams in the proccess of going online.

    You will always get the horror story's,and some people will no doubt advise you differently,but as i say my experiance with them has been fine.

    Best of luck with you decision making :biggrin
     
    Certifications: A+,70-270
    WIP: 70-290
  3. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

    3,282
    73
    152
    Well first I just want to say since I live in the states I've not had any exp with either of them. :biggrin

    Your post seems to say at least to me that you already made your choice. Your just seem a little bit shy about making the commitment.

    I can say this. I have several friends that have the security+ cert. It has been out now for a couple of years. I myself would not trust a company that can tell such a bald face lie. And that sale man does represent that school.

    Good luck with whatever choice you make, and you know we are here if you need us.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  4. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

    6,771
    102
    221
    Well I did my MSCE with NITLC but that was some time ago, and I haven't kept in touch with them (no reason to really).


    I had no problems with them and any problems I had were answered promptly and professionally.

    Just another point of view!!
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCSA (messaging), ITIL Foundation v3
    WIP: Looking at doing ..................
  5. Uruloke

    Uruloke Nibble Poster

    63
    0
    16
    Thanks for the replies and insights into both providers guys, this forum is superb!! I will make a final decision by the end of play today.
     
    Certifications: GNVQ (Going Nowhere Very Quickly!)
  6. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

    6,281
    85
    174

    Let us know the outcome :D
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  7. Uruloke

    Uruloke Nibble Poster

    63
    0
    16
    Ok guys I have made my decision, and I don't think it will be any real surprise to anyone who read my post that I have chosen Computeach. Gonna give the guy a ring later to let him know, I still need to apply for the Career Development loan but I think my credit rating is pretty decent as I have recently transferred most of my Barclaycard balance to a new Morgan Stanley card (freeing up the Barclaycard to cover the 20% of the course fee I need to pay up front!).

    EDIT: Really bizarre, I picked up my phone and called the guy from Computeach, as I was putting it to my ear I saw the 'message' logo pop up on my screen. The guy from NITLC was trying to ring me the same time as I was ringing the guy from Computeach!! Spooky!!

    After arranging to meet the rep from CT I decided to nip the NITLC issue in the bud pretty quickly and called him. When I told him I was going with Computeach he was surprised to say the least, however I got a nice e-mail from him this evening wishing me every success in my career in IT. I thought that was very nice of him considering I'm going with a competitor.
     
    Certifications: GNVQ (Going Nowhere Very Quickly!)
  8. peace786

    peace786 Bit Poster

    22
    0
    2
    can someone please answer this question?

    If one is to go with computeach how does one pay? I dont have 5000 grand on me , is their a loaning system so once can mybe pay them when one finds a job?

    thanks
     
  9. MrNice

    MrNice Kilobyte Poster

    325
    2
    27
    You can either pay instantly or arrange a career development loan. Your training provider will organise it for you, You pay deposit, then your loan repayments start 2 years later or at the end of your course. Load of crap really, and I dont recommend conputeach
     
  10. peace786

    peace786 Bit Poster

    22
    0
    2

    what service other than computeach can you recommend?

    thanks
     
  11. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    As someone who earned an MCSE, an MCDBA, a CCNA, and an A+ my personal experience is that if you are naturally technically minded, self-motivated, and not shy about asking questions in forums such as this one, your money is much better spent in buying enough computer equipment for a lab, buying a ton of reference books, and then educating yourself on a part-time basis while you continue to earn money.

    I went through a "self-paced", Microsoft Certified Partner's school and it was a huge waste of money. Any program that is self-paced is going to make you learn it on your own anyway. If it isn't self-paced, you are going to be slammed through your studies much faster than you will really be able to absorb all that you need to know, especially if you are new to the IT field.

    Finding a school that has good instructors is very difficult, especially if you don't have some background by which to evaluate them. If I had to do this all over again, and I was going to spend money on a school, I would want to see each instructor's resume. I would want to talk to each of them and I would not shy away from grilling them relentlessly. My instructors knew no more about the basics of computing than I did. Sure they had MCSE's, but they had basically braindumped their way through. Anything that I struggled with they didn't know the answer to either.

    The other thing to look for is to make sure any school you choose to enter has lots, and I mean lots, of labs so you can set up ever scenario you come across in the books and do it hands on. If you don't your retention level will be far too low to make you of real value to any organization that hires you, because there is a tremendous amount of material to be learned. Book study will never be enough, and you can't possibly set up all hands-on experiments and work through an MCSE in a month or so during classroom hours. Anyone who tells you it's possible is either a freaking computer genius and learns faster than 99% of the population, or is not being honest with you.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  12. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

    6,281
    85
    174
    Some good advice there from ffreeloader. Someone who has been there and done it- Thanks :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT
  13. peace786

    peace786 Bit Poster

    22
    0
    2
    do computeach have labs where one can experience how the job is done in a real environment? i.e. usign switches, routers and other hardware hands on and not simulation>?
     
  14. MrNice

    MrNice Kilobyte Poster

    325
    2
    27
    Yes they do have labs, you get to use them just before the test!
    Go with the teach yourself advice, spend £50 on a book relating to what you want to study? If its the MCSE buy MS press 70-270 self paced study guide and start reading. You get free questions etc included and use this site to post questions on subject you dont understsand. If you find you are really getting into it but would prefer tutor assistance by all means sign up with a training provider. All computeach do is send you mentioned book and tell you to read it. It seems I paid a whole load of cash for this book and some transcender software and I am not sure what else. I get more help on here than I do from them and it's something I regret.
    It's your decision but DO NOT rush in and sign your life away. If your new to IT make sure the MCSE is what you actually want to do or it will be a very difficult study path indeed.
    HTH
     
  15. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    A further note here.

    An MCSE is not a beginners certificate. If you do not have a background in computer repair and have at least a basic understanding of networking concepts don't go for an MCSE right off the bat. You will be so stressed out and so far in over your head it won't be funny. Unless that is you're a computer genius, and even then it won't be a piece of cake. I saw way too many people jump into an MCSE with no background and talk about having a tough row to how. Some dropped out half way through because they were just wasting their time. They didn't have enough background to comprehend what they were doing.

    I saw a piece of advice earlier in this thread about buying a book for studying for your MCSE. I'll tell you how many books I have. In the 33 months I've been studying I have a total of 90 books. These range from books on basic networking fundamentals to t-sql programming books, to vendor specfic books such as the Windows 2000 Server Reference Set, to Mastering Windows 2003 by Mark Minasi, to books on Active directory, DNS, DHCP, VBScript, JavaScript, Basic network security, SQL Server, Exchange server, DTS, and the MSDN SQL Server 2000 Reference Library, to Snort and a few Linux books, and about a dozen exam specfic books covering the exams I took. I have also printed off enough online guides to fill 7 or 8 2" 3-ring binders. I've read most of the books completely through except for the reference books I have that are not designed to be read cover-to-cover.

    No exam specific book will be able to teach you enough to truly have a working knowledge of things such as Active Directory, GPO's, DNS, DHCP, TCP/IP, etc... all the fundamental things you really need to know to work effectively.

    Exam specific books are a go here, do that, to accomplish this task, without giving you the needed background to understand why and when you need to do such things. They aren't designed to do that. They are designed to do one thing and one thing only--help you understand what is on a test. Unfortunately passing a test and really understanding the concepts you will be working with so you can troubleshoot problems as they happen are not synonomous. If you can do the second you can pass the test, but just passing the test doesn't mean you are capable of being able to function in the real world in a way that will satisfy an employer.

    I was fortunate enough to have gotten thrown in with the sharks on my very first IT job--before I started studying for my certs--and I quickly recognized when I started studying that I needed a lot of fundamental knowledge that exam specific books are not designed to give you. That's when I went on the book crusade, and I've stayed on it for almost 3 years now and I'm not about to slow down on my book buying.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  16. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    Great set of posts Freddy, another fine addition to the CF community I can see you making :)
    that is exactly my stance on it
    if you want to blow 6k, blow it on one hell of a fancy lab and some books
    if your not technically minded enough for that, ask yourself if IT is really for you

    willpower is a must in this industry, your often left to solve complex problems on your own, or with a team who may or may not have a clue (its easier when they do) willpower, patience and determination are key factors for most it workers, and if you dont have them for the studying, then i'm not entirely sure what sort of position you hope to fill

    Again, Great post freddy, excellent points raised :)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  17. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

    3,661
    106
    167
    Thanks, Phoenix.

    For those of you out there who are contemplating a career in IT. Don't even seriously consider this field if you don't seriously love doing it. The hours will be extremely painful for you if you don't love what you're doing. My first, and only so far, IT job I worked at home remotely administering servers and doing help desk work. I rolled out of bed a 5:00 in the morning to my computer beeping at me from the raft of ICQ messages waiting for me, and quit sometime around 10:00 each evening. Sometimes it was 11:00 or 11:30. Small startup companies will work you to death, but they are the most likely places to find a job because they can't afford the big salaries of the highly competent IT techs. :blink You will hate it if you don't absolutely love what you're doing.

    Also, if you aren't looking for a life-long learning experience, forget it. You will soon be so far out of date with your knowledge that you will be unemployable, or you will hate the constant study with a passion. This is not get a cert and you're home free field of endeavor. To enjoy working in this field you must have a love of learning and a love of doing research, for you will be constantly researching something.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA, A+
    WIP: LPIC 1
  18. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    and freddy nails it again ;)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  19. free-lees

    free-lees New Member

    1
    0
    1
    Can anyone recommend some decent books for begginers.

    Thanks
     

Share This Page

Loading...