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Need a little help and braindumps !!

Discussion in 'General Microsoft Certifications' started by Quarky, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. Quarky

    Quarky Byte Poster

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    Hello,

    If there's anybody out there willing, i could do with a bit of advice with the 70-270..

    also, i'll point out an example of why braindumping is ridiculously bad for you !!!

    I consider myself an average guy, i've been on the 270 for about 4 months on and off. I have read the MS Press book which seemed fine, i went through a little 'Netg' program which was also fine. About 2/3 weeks ago i started the Readiness Review and Transcender practice questions and now can gain pretty much 90-100 % on those every time.

    Now, i train with Advent (which has been great so far) and they supply me with a 'mock' exam to see if i am ready for the actual exam. The mock exam is supplied by Self Test Software.

    I found it ludicrously difficult. :ohmy

    I have done a couple of 'mocks' and have averaged about 65%, but the main thing is that it has pointed out a lot of weak areas for me. It would appear that my study material does not contain enough detailed information to enable me to pass the mock exam. I would say that i still have a lot of work to do, even though i was feeling fairly confident.

    If any of you guys can throw me a few pointers i would appreciate it, it has been quite a learning experience as i can fully understand and answer the Transcenders etc, but fall short on the Self Test software. I'm guessing that the actual exam is going to be closer to the mock than the Transcenders.

    Which brings me to the point on braindumping...

    I have never seen a braindump. I can already appreciate the pointlessness of something that will quite literally give you false belief in your abilities without having to see them for myself.

    Just recently i read a post by someone giving advice on the 270 that they had just passed. Now, this person openly stated that if you can score over 55% on the Transcenders and read the braindumps all the way through then you can pass the actual 270 exam, after all - they are living proof.

    :eek:

    From this, i can presume that it is in fact the braindump that passes the exam, and not the individual. This person has a qualification which appears to be based on the ability to pass the Transceder practice questions with a 55% score. (not even a passing score)

    I know that this subject has been done to death, but there are so many newbies that come to this forum and i believe that it cant be stated enough, the importance of NOT using a braindump.

    You are literally giving yourself no hope of progression. Ok, you can probably get so far, but when the push comes to shove and you want to progress into more difficult things - you are going to fall WAY,WAY short on ability.

    I'm sure that any of you guys who have passed all of your certs genuinely will appreciate this little point, i take my hat off to you all (if i had a hat on that is) - Doing the 270 has even made me realise how easy the MCDST was !! - I'm eager to get it sorted out though as i can't wait to get stuck into the 290 !!

    Carl :D
     
    Certifications: A+,270,271,272 (MCDST)
    WIP: Master CIW
  2. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    You're right that braindumps are worthless, and do not assist anyone in anything other than passing an exam.

    I'm not sure about the post you refer to, but it seems to be indicating that, if you can pass the Transcenders for an exam without cheating, then you are probably ready for the exam itself. There is an element of truth to this, as Transcenders (and other decent simulation/mock test software) questions are generally pitched at a slightly more diffidult level than the exam itself. i think what the poster was trying to convey is that, if your knowledge allows you to pass Transcenders, then the same knowledge is likely to mean you should pass the actual exam too.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  3. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well I fully support the call on braindumps as being a very bad idea. However I do think you have some very valid points.

    Most of the certs exams are created to be easilly and cheaply testable by a computer. This generally involves creating an exam of the multiple choice format. This format can easily be abused in many ways as has been discussed. The reaction to this seems to be to up the passing grade and create more obtuse questions.

    This then creates a number of problems for the examinee, they have to learn no only the theory and practice but also the exam format and the obtuse questions and terminology. They have to learn how to spot the 'trick' questions.

    While this is in no way unique and to some extent exists for all exams it seems to be exacerbated by the cert exam process.

    I have to confess I've only taken Sun and IBM cert exams so this is based on that experience and various mocks, although I did once take a 4 hour beta! I looked at the A+ mocks and syllabus the other day. Some of it did seem a bit strange to be honest, I've built and fixed many PC's over the years, who cares what pin format or socket goes with what processor ? This information can be obtained when necessary, generally this is only needed by home builders and motherboard manufacturers, its pretty useless on a day to day basis. I think theres a real danger that some certs may be just teaching lots of facts and not really teaching any meaningful fundamental principles.
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I find that somewhat surprising, because Self Test Software and Transcender are owned by the same company, employ the same writers, and use the same content (you simply get more content and a better guarantee with the Transcender product).

    That said, 70-270 was written before Transcender was acquired by Self Test Software, so I guess it's possible that the Self Test and Transcender products are actually different for that exam.

    On your main note - the best we can do is continue to warn users about the dangers of braindumping. You are entirely correct that a user will have an extremely difficult time learning more advanced concepts if they cheat their way through the fundamentals... which will cause them to continue to use braindumps when attempting to learn more advanced subjects, and the cycle continues while the user actually understands very little. But boy, they sure can answer a limited selection of questions! This is why they can only score 50% on practice exams - they don't understand the concepts completely. If they did, it wouldn't matter if they're taking practice exams or the real thing... they'd pass the exam, regardless.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  5. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    I disagree, I've messed with computers for 23 years now as an interest and 12 years professionally. I've taken various courses and got various quals, I've read countless books. I probably couldn't pass the A+ without several weeks of study simply because there is an element of 'studying to the exam' that is required to pass. Sure I know the general content but can I remember whether EDO ram is installed in pairs ? Can I remember the bus speeds of various legacy hardware ?
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  6. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I didn't say if you played with computers for 23 years, you'd be able to pass. I said that if you understand the concepts completely.. meaning, the concepts on CompTIA's exam outline... then you'll be able to pass (since those bus speeds you mention are part of those concepts). In contrast, if you simply memorize braindumps, theres NO level of understanding that takes place. Agreed?
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  7. Quarky

    Quarky Byte Poster

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    Good point bud, i did the A+ last year and i cant for the life of me recall which socket a Duron uses.

    There is definately a certain 'small' element that you have to memorise for a specific exam which you simply will struggle to get from experience and no doubt it will be forgotten once the exam is over. I think the key is that in passing the exam genuinely, it shows that you have the 'understanding' capabilities.

    I guess that it is simply impossible to know everything all of the time, which is why we have to specialise.

    :D
     
    Certifications: A+,270,271,272 (MCDST)
    WIP: Master CIW
  8. stuPeas

    stuPeas Megabyte Poster

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    I agree with this, though to a certain extent I do believe that exams do not always test real world abilities. Mostly they test your ability to "pass an exam".

    I presume that this is why members here are always stressing that certs are actually for people who ALREADY work in, and have experience with the IT industry, which, while I am not one of those people, I tend to agree with as well.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronic, CIW Associate (v5).
    WIP: CIW (Website Design Manager)
  9. stuPeas

    stuPeas Megabyte Poster

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    QFT:D
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronic, CIW Associate (v5).
    WIP: CIW (Website Design Manager)
  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I agree - I'm not defending whether exams test on real world abilities. They often don't. However, I'm sure you'd agree that someone who braindumps will quite possibly not be able to advance in the "real world" due to a lack of understanding of the concepts.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  11. stuPeas

    stuPeas Megabyte Poster

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    I don't think that possibly comes into it!!. As far as I'm concerned, if they use brain-dumps to pass an exam I cant see how they would have ANY chance in the "real world". I'm petty sure they would fall at the very first hurdle.

    I don't study for the CIW to pass the exam. I study so that I understand the concepts I will (hopefully) have to rely on in real world situations. This is probably why Ive been studying for so long (I'm embarrassed to actually say how long)
    :biggrin
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronic, CIW Associate (v5).
    WIP: CIW (Website Design Manager)
  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Well, I say possibly simply because there are those techs who have been in IT for years and years and have already advanced, but need to get certified and can't be bothered legitimately, so they grab a braindump and pass. While I absolutely don't endorse that practice, it is possible that that individual might have an understanding of the topics already. That's why I qualified my statement with italics.

    All that said, if someone is at that level of experience, using braindumps is a total cop-out... someone at that level should be able to skim the (legal) info, memorize a few ports or obscure concepts, and fly through the exam.

    Glad you're studying for CIW the "right way". Doesn't matter how long it takes... you'll be well-qualified when you're ready to take the exam. Who knows, you might be able to pass NOW... but it's even better that you want to study everything completely. (That said, some people take "studying completely" to a whole new level... <cough>... Prof... <cough>...)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  13. stuPeas

    stuPeas Megabyte Poster

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    lol (Its like Bruce Lee's Kung Foo...Studying WITHOUT studying)
    I know,...Im bad, sorry Prof.

    Didn't think about experienced individuals using braindumps, Thats a tricky one....realy don't know how I feel about that one!! :rolleyes:
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronic, CIW Associate (v5).
    WIP: CIW (Website Design Manager)
  14. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    "Its like a finger pointing to the sun, dont concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory"....Bruce Lee

    Just because you can pass an exam does not mean you can actually do it when it comes to the real world, although you may know the theory, when it comes to being under pressure that is when you have to show your true knowledge and skill.

    Once you have the experience it should become second nature but the theory must be learned first.

    "you must learn then apply then in real life you react without thinking".....Bruce Lee

    I belive this to be the case for most things in life, you learn, then apply then react.

    (sorry for the bruce lee quotes, but they seem to make sense to me anyhow)

    If experience people are using braindumps the only way I see it is that they are tired of studying and one day it will catch up to them and that is the day they will fail.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, Security+, 70-270
    WIP: 70-620 or 70-680?
  15. Dhughes

    Dhughes Byte Poster

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    (Its like Bruce Lee's Kung Foo...Studying WITHOUT studying)




    Ive never heard these Bruce lee quote before and really suprises me, I know its off topic sorry but what was it referencing? as Bruce Lee quotes are always good metiphors,

    Im guessing the same as use using Braindumps? Wanting to know something /get something without putting the effort in?
     
    Certifications: A+ Essentails, A+ Technician , MCDST
    WIP: MCSE
  16. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Yep. They want it fast, they want it now, and they don't want to have to DO anything to get it. They want to get certified with the least possible effort. Some want to pass without the fear of failing and losing their testing fees. Some don't want to look bad to their employer. Some think it's their ticket into IT. But in all cases where braindumps are concerned, you end up with a certification program that loses its value because of techs who are unqualified to hold the credential.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!

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