MSSTUDENT - James Thornton IT Training, ANY Comments on this provider?

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Quoted for Truth.

Dylan, I promise you, if you go down the braindump memorize-hundreds-of-questions-just-to-pass-exams-within-two-months road, you'll have a very difficult time in your IT career... first, as you struggle to get a job with empty certifications and no experience, job placement or no... secondly, as you find that you'll eventually be thrust into a job position for which you are wholly unqualified to perform... and finally as you attempt to find another job with a bad reference on your CV after you've been fired.

These classes will not magically make you qualified to be a tech. Training does not make you a good tech. Certification does not make you a good tech. Solid, outside-the-classroom, real-world experience makes you a good tech. You can't buy that. You can't shortcut that. You can't fake that.

Heed my advice, or ignore it - doesn't matter to me. I merely provide this information for your benefit... I'm certainly not typing just to hear myself type. In a couple of years, you'll realize I was right... the easy way or the hard way. You may not understand why, now, but I guarantee you will, then. It's your choice.

 

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Quick question for you (so that you can realize why this training center is totally oblivious to reality)...

...after you get the MCSE (which, in your earlier posts, you called the MCSA, then changed it to the MCSE - which is it?)...

...why would they then have you get the MCDST, a lower-level certification? After all, the MCDST is for desktop support, while the MCSE is for network and server support. Last I checked, network admins are much MUCH higher on the "career ladder" than desktop support techs. So why would they have you get that certification afterwards?

Crazy.

 

OK they said i would be doing 40 days training for the MCSA, but he said realistically it would take 3-4 months to complete.

http://www.msstudentcampus.com/it_pro.asp

Why they do the MCSA b4 the MCDT i dont know

anyway heres the link if you want to have a look

 

The way I read it, there is no suggested structure - the reason that it looks as if the MCDST follows the MCSA is because it is on the right hand side of it on the page.

Personally I'd be cautious about doing either of them as in several of your pasts you've given the certifications the wrong names or mixed them up. It sounds as if you aren't really sure which is which.

If the salesman hasn't cleared that up for you, he hasn't done a terribly good job, or you haven't asked the right questions.

I'd sort out exactly what you want to do and why, before worring about where to train.

 

its up to you... we have all give you our feedback but i have got one more link for you to read...

http://www.certforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=11831

you can pay 8000 pounds and do the MCSA in 3-4 months or you can do it using alot less (£1000) over a longer period... all we saying is there is no way you can become a MCSA in such a short time!

 

...not a valid one who can do the job of an MCSA, at any rate.

I still don't think he believes that a piece of paper won't make him a good tech. I guess he'll just have to find out after spending the £8000.

 

Dylan,

I would also strongly advise against going on this "course" as they call it. However I look at it, I see disaster. If you were to do this, at some point I believe you will regret it. If not straight away when you start the course, it will be when you realise you can answer the questions, but actually have no idea what any of it means.

Lets say you did obtain your MCSA/MCSE out of it, and get a job, what happens when your sat there looking at a problem and have 50 users sitting around waiting for you to fix whatever it is thats not working.

Im only on A+ Essentials so I guess you could easily question my knowledge in this debate, but having been studying the A+ book etc for the last 3 weeks, I can almost promise you that MCSA in 8 weeks is near on impossible for even the most intelligent person.

My advice would be to get a few books, have a look at them, and then rethink your approach.

 

I personalley think the course you have been offered is a complete con, and the short time scales these training companies are putting on such high level training courses raises huge cause for concern. It would be impossible to gain all them qualifications in 2 months unless you studied at least 8 hours a day intensely in my opinion - but even then like someone has pointed out you would just be passing exams based on memorising facts and not actualley understanding what you are doing unless you are already professional in the industry. I would never spend over 8 grand on a training course especialley the one that has been offered to you as it seems to have no direction, no structure, a very short time scale and no fundementals or introductory course for people who lack experience. Does the course include any practical elements or is it all just theory? You would be better off shopping around becuase this one looks extreemley dodgy to me!

 

Have checked these people out in detail etc. Here is what I've got for you. 40 days training includes Microsoft Official courseware and uses virtual p.c. so you can gain hands on experience with servers and solving problems I expect. MOC's are quite expensice - normal price is £1500/5day course so 40 days would work out at around 12k + they have mocks papers and exam fees included. My company paid for a MOC for me once on Proxy Server that cost £2200 a few years back, the books and trainers are very good and the trainers know their stuff. I assume after the MOC's are complete I would have to do some exam prep before sitting the exams(included in the 8k)unsure as to lenght of time - my gues would be 2-4 days revision on each exam, then hopefull pass the exams and go into employment. It would be almost impossible to do it at home without cheating, as would not be able to setup labs and problems to solve,+ you;d need lots of computers etc.

They guarantee a job after the MCSA, where you gain real experience, so guess they have a way of bypassing job applications & interviews which I hate. Then you have to study part time while working after that to get MCSE & MCDBA all within 2 years. If i didnt already have a job and I could get their loan, it is tempting, although I'd probably get mcsa & mcse in the first year and not bother with MCDBA. Never asked if they do any upgrade packages though, does anyone know if they do updage packages?
As for being a good techi, from experience the only way to be a good techi is to get in the door with a company, if you like it, stick with it and you will develop over time*about 2 years), you will have to deal with problems and complaints from people, but who cares the money's good and there are a few perks to being a techi. My wife moans all the time, at first I used to stress, and panic, but now I just fade out the unimportant whims from staff and my wife.
Those courses & exams should get anyone in the door and on the right track, if thats what you really want.Good luck to all of you buding Microsoft gurus to be.
x

 

Welcome to CF

I notice that yopu've been digging up quite a lot of old posts on training providers, so it looks like you're seriously researching the CBT (Classroom Based Training) approach.

I also note from your post above that you believe you can only attain certified status at home if you 'cheat' (by which I presume you mean Br*ind*mps), and that in order to pass each MCP you will need '3-4 days' revision' after each MOC course.

Let me tell you that you couldn't be more wrong on both counts - sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but its true.

First off the bat, there are hundreds of people - many on this forum - who swear by self-study as the only way to get certified. Personally, I believe a bit of CBT is very useful - but then again, i was lucky enough to get my CBT for my MCSE & MCDBA funded by a previous employer as part of a redundancy settlement. Self-study is not for everyone - it requires discipline and a will to persist with things when they aren't going that well - but it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that self-study is your main study route to ANY MCP exam. Simply taking the MOCs is NOT enough to enable you to pass the exams. I can't stress that enough.

That brings me on to my second point - that you can pass an MCP with 3-4 days' revision after taking the MOC. Sorry mate, but that is hopelessly ambitious. Not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but I am very well experienced in the IT industry (eight years and counting) and have performed a number of roles, from Sys Admin, to DBA, to Network Admin, to Security Admin. I guarantee you that if I took ANY MCP I'd never taken before on the back of an MOC and four days' worth of revision, I would fail dismally. Even passing the Server & Workstation exams will require a minimum of a month's self-study for most people - estimating conservatively at 2-3 hours' self-study per day. Once you get onto the harder exams (AD, Network Inf and your electives), you can expect this to increase exponentially.

As a good example, it took me pretty close to 12 months exactly to pass all seven of my exams for my MCSE and MCDBA. During that 12 months, I took ALL the MOCs (with a very good training provider, who shall remain nameless), was fortunate enough to have enough redundancy payment to take a year off work and study full time - which meant eight hour days, almost every day - from the time my wife went to work to the time she came back. I added all my self-study time up and (estimating conservatively, because I took some days out, went on holiday and didn't study EVERY weekend) it came to approximately 2200 hours.

You will need to revise your expectations of the MOCs drastically beforte deciding whether to take the plunge and fork out upwards of eight grand for what amounts to 40 days worth of classroom training (the pros and cons of which are discussed elsewhere on this forum) and a job 'guarantee' which, frankly, isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Sorry of this post sounds a bit grim. Its certainly not my intention to put you off! But you do need to have a think about just how long it will really take you to pass your exams - I categorically state now that the only way anyone can pass MCPs after an MOC and three-four days' revision is via a br*ind*mp.

Good luck!

 

Why would it be impossible to do at home? Can we not use Virtual PC or VMWare at home? And I can certainly set up labs and problems to solve... simply follow a study guide's instructions. Quite simple... and costs a lot less.

Good luck with that job guarantee. Nobody can guarantee you a job unless they're the ones hiring you. And even if you do get a job... it may be for a job with a schedule (either number of hours or day/night hours) you're not willing or able to work, for a salary you're not willing or able to take, or in a location you're not willing or able to go. Just keep that in mind when they throw "promises" at you.

What exam prep tools do they use? This would be crucial, because if they use braindump products, you'll pass your exam... but you will have cheated to do so.

 

Theres lots of good advice in this thread, but if I can add another line.
At the start of the year(2006!) I spent ages researching each way to get myself qualified to work in IT. From the courses which came with guarantees of passes and jobs, to the home study to the straight forward braindumps and listened to people swearing by one route or another.
I used this forum and any other I could find and didn't find anyone who I didnt believe worked for the company who spoke well of any ot the guarantee houses(passes or jobs). Theres too much smallprint and too much sales involved.
Conclusion I came to was that I wanted a course where I sat down and got my hands dirty and actually did what I was studying to do.
I found a few companies that trained you to the level you needed to understand each course and be able to then have a good crack at doing the job afterwards. This meant then having to revise for the exams myself, which I did.
I took 3 months out from work, found the cheapest place to stay in Plymouth(can I say BlueScreenIT) and worked morning noon and night.
I did pass the exams for MCSA, and now just need to take my last exam for MCSE.
When I added up the lot, course, accomodation, living expenses in addition to my regular monthlies it cost around £7000
I found contract work immediately and continued learning on the job which has been handy.
This isnt meant to be a bio; my point is no-one gives a genuine job guarantee, no-one will give you skills you can take away and a qualification in a few weeks.
Best way for me was to sit down, do it with people around me I could bounce off, doing everything by myself seemed too hard and destined to failure, I needed to learn skills and then take the exams.
You need to decide exactly what you need, and can afford and then search for that, rather than just taking the first pretty looking option you see.
End of sermon!!

 

Great post, rep left.

Si

 

Yeah, I did that as well.

 

Aye - me n' all!

 

Yeah me too.
I would never apply for a job which required that I attend an interview. And even if it didn't, I wouldn't apply for it anyway because I hate all that.

I sit on a rug in town with a sign that says 'Will develop stuff for food' and wait for large IT companies to approach me.

Can't complain, it usually works out.
Sometimes people put money in my hat which helps if there is a quiet few months.

I noticed there is an experienced network administrator doing the same thing at the railway station. He's got rather a poorly looking dog and seems to be getting more major corporate clients than me.

I'm not sure if it's the state of the market, choice of venue or people feeling sorry for the dog.

If anyone has any ideas which may resolve the current IT industry/national rail service usage/canine health debate then please chip in. It's troubling me.

 

My feeling on the whole Newbie >Cert > Job > Loads of money scenerio has always been the same; but I would just like to remind anyone who is unaware of my feeling/advice.

Do something because you want to, not because your friend says you have to or you have seen a get rich quick fable.

If you want to do well in any line of work, you have to put a lot of work in. This might be physical work, work no-one else wants to do, un-sociable hours, loads of studying etc....

People's salary 9 times out of ten will reflect the amount of knowledge they have, experience, pressure, people who are dependant on them and of course, the field they work in amongst other things.

I am not trying to put anyone off here, and I am not biased towards home study or training providers - each has pro's and con's.

But, as for *missing* out on any recruitment process - for how long? Sooner, or later you will have to meet people, sell yourself and convince someone (ie a human) you are the right person for the job. Later down the line, you will have to deal with people who look to you for help.

This whole farce of paying someone for a job (in the very few instances) is, just that. I am sure in some dark and dubious places I could get a cert to say I am a fully fledged medical practitioner - but why, I would be of no use to anyone.

Pay people money for books, media and training if you want to get the job that you are eager to do and willing to learn about.

Happy new Year.

Si

 

They're so worried about the bad press in internet forums that they've tried to put a positive spin on it by suggesting that their competitors are spreading lies about them.

A bit of a brawl's going on in another forum whose url I won't mention here, but it looks rather nasty and for some unknown reason one of the protagonists appears to think that I'm involved! Not the case, quiet as a lamb, me, but I was amused...

PM me if you want the url, and be very careful of this organisation...

Bonne annee, by the way!

 

if only you knew.