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MSCA discrimination?

Discussion in 'General Microsoft Certifications' started by chrome, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. chrome

    chrome Bit Poster

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    I've been looking at the MCSA's and the one I have most experience in is the Windows 8 MCSA.
    My question is will an employer "look down" on a MCSA: Windows 8 compared to a MCSA: Windows Server 2012?
    Obviously it can depend on the job, but let's just generalise a minute. Would you think less of the Windows 8 one if another applicant had the server one?
    The good thing about the MCSA: Windows 8 for me is not only do I have the most experience with it, but It's cheaper (2 tests instead of 3) and also MS UK is offering a free Windows 10 test once it comes out. On the other hand, if it's not taken as seriously I'd rather work harder and go for the Windows Server 2012.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    MCSA, is supposed to mean Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator.

    In this day and age that almost certainly means managing a domain with Active Directory, Windows 8 is a client OS, you cannot make it a domain controller or host Active Directory on it. This is by design so MS can charge more for the server OS.

    The MCSA tag is therefore merely a marketing tactic.

    The administration of client os's is more commonly referred to as desktop support. Which is why the MCDST designation existed which made a lot more sense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
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  3. chrome

    chrome Bit Poster

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    Thanks but you didn't really answer any of my questions.
     
  4. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    No an "MCSA" Windows 8 is not the same as an MCSA Windows Server 2012. Thats why employers dont see them the same, the hiring managers, who will be IT Managers would know this.

    Its like comparing a geography GCSE to a physics A level. They are very different things meant for very different purposes.

    Systems administrators get the big bucks for managing enterprises, networks and data centers. The Windows 8 MCSA covers very little of this.

    You cannot manage an enterprise easily with Windows 8, you need servers and services, on windows those services come with the Server OS.

    Most notably kerberos, DNS, LDAP, NTP, DFS, IPsec, RPC, NetBIOS, RDP, but there are also others. If you knew some networking and administration you would know this.

    Discrimination is a good thing, you give the job at CERN to the guy with the physics Phd. Done right this leads to a meritocracy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  5. chrome

    chrome Bit Poster

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    That's a really good reply and exactly what I wanted. It's a shame you nit pick at me though: "If you knew some networking and administration you would know this". Why did you need to say that? Do you not like me or something?

    I know they cover 2 different subjects I just wanted to see if they hold the same value. In the OP I said "Obviously it can depend on the job, but let's just generalise a minute", so the job might not necessarily involve networking. I just wanted to know if they both had equal value. I.E. no matter the subject are they both 4 stars, or is the Windows 8 a 3.5 star?

    Discrimination is fine, and that's why I created this thread. If the Windows Server is the golden boy then that's the one I want to go with.
     
  6. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    You can learn about Windows 8 to a very deep level, you could learn how to write kernel mode device drivers for instance, different skill sets for different jobs.

    Desktop support while a worthwhile job is a lower ranking job than Systems Administrator or IT Manager.

    I nit pick at you because you call yourself an IT Manager, yet most people here will have spent 10+ years to gain that title.

    Be honest with yourself about what you don't know and stop calling yourself an IT Manager, its ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  7. chrome

    chrome Bit Poster

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    What a warm welcome to a forum...

    In my first thread I admitted I wasn't a real IT manager, but as we are a 2 man operation and I manage all of the IT side of things, I say I'm the IT manager within the company. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

    You're a friendly person...
     
  8. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    Actually yes there is everything wrong with that, You aren't an IT Manager and calling yourself one doesn't do you any favours. At best you should be telling everyone you look after the IT side of the business, you certainly shouldn't be telling them you're the IT Manager because quite simply you aren't.

    Dave is right, having the title of IT Manager usually means you have spent the time in the trenches, have some experience with budgets, projects, team management and have some technical experience of some sort or another.

    You sure as heck couldn't get another job as an IT Manager should something happen with your current role, if you tried you would get laughed out of the building. Yes it's harsh but please understand, you aren't an IT Manager, hell when I was the owner of my own company (I spent 15 years as an IT Contractor) I was the Director of that company, I could call myself the Chairman, just because I was the director of my own company doesn't mean I could be the IT Director of any other company, it's the same thing with you now, you have given yourself a nice fancy title... but that's just it, a nice fancy title that means nothing outside of your company, the sooner you realise that the sooner you will understand that IT Management is more than just a title.

    The fact that you're looking at junior level certifications (MCSA Windows 8) shows the lack of experience you have as far as management is concerned (as an IT Manager you're expected to have the certifications already an be pretty much hands off for a lot of the time now, after all that's what you have a team for).

    As a 45 year old Operations Manager please understand why I can say what I am saying, I have been in IT since 1998, in that time I have gained a number of job related certifications, in the 17 years of my adult working life I have managed various teams both in IT and my previous life as a soldier, I currently manage a team of highly experienced people (VMware skilled) and have many years of experience working with various technologies (desktop, server, virtualisation etc) and am a hiring manager (so I look at CV's all the time), why am I telling you this? Because it gives me the back ground and experience to tell you when you're wrong.

    Now back to your MCSA Windows 8 \ Windows 2012 question, any decent IT Manager worth their salt would already know the difference between the two certifications and would know why you would hire one or the other, further reason why calling yourself an IT Manager is incorrect.

    Finally, please understand that the MCSA is aimed at an experienced desktop engineer, someone with enterprise level experience who understands not just the OS but also the various enterprise level technology around it (SCCM, MDT, WSUS etc). Don't know what they are? Then perhaps you aren't ready for the MCSA Windows 8 yet.
     
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  9. chrome

    chrome Bit Poster

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    What's annoying Simon is that if I just said I'm the IT guy in the original thread, none of this hatred would be there.

    Just because I used an incorrect term and I'm being roasted for it. I know I'm not a real IT manager I said that at the start, it's a 2 man company and I do the IT. Sorry for using the wrong words I guess..

    There's so much anger just because I said I'm an IT manager for a 2 man company. Do you think I go around parading and shouting out to everyone that I'm an IT manager, looking all smug as I do it? No one even knows what I do, just that I have my own business.

    I'm shocked how angry and offended you guys are getting. I thought I would have been welcomed here because I'm actually trying to progress myself, instead I've been shot down in each thread.

    I've said I'm ready for some hard work learning and again it goes back to my incorrect title. It's a shame you guys couldn't look past the stupid title and just see I'm a 25 year old guy that's just looking out for some guidance.

    Next time I won't bother. Thanks for the all the help.
     
  10. Juelz

    Juelz Gigabyte Poster

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    Im the IT Manager of my house tbh.. I may start putting this on my cv.
     
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    dmarsh likes this.
  11. SimonD

    SimonD Terabyte Poster Moderator

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    You misunderstand, if we didn't want to help we wouldn't have bothered responding to your post, you're also wrong about how angry and offended I am, because trust me if I was angry and offended you would know about it (just think yourself lucky you're not a Kiwi).
    As far as guidance goes, that's all I am offering you, the guidance of a guy in his mid 40's who has done what you're trying to do, I got in to IT at 28, that's not to say I wasn't doing IT before then but that's when I got my commercial \ enterprise experience.
    Finally if you can't take criticism (this wasn't harsh btw) then perhaps you need to question whether IT is the right job for you. I have seen guys pulled in front of the CTO for **** ups that have literally cost millions in lost revenue, trust me if they weren't made of the tough stuff these guys would have come out crying.
     
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  12. SimonV

    SimonV Petabyte Poster Administrator

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    I agree, there is no need for this kind of "nit picking", if you have a problem with somebody calling themselves by a job title then there are better ways to approach the subject in a manner more conducive to an online forum.

    Back to topic please and lets leave the 'job title' to another thread.
     
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