Microsoft in the wrong here? Response to MCP Flash: July 2009

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by kevicho, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

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    That's interesting, I wasn't aware of the master certification. I still think it would be beneficial to bring this in at the MCITP level - after all it's these guys who'll be running 99% of the corporate MS environments.
     
  2. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    But therin lies your problem

    the cost of delivering such a scheme is high, thus making it a best fit for an expensive high end cert
    99% of the guys running our infrastructure are not that high, but to expect them to all do a practical portion would be crazzzzy


    The better way would be to grant experienced IT staff with a certain level of skill as 'auditors' and allow staff who work with them to get something signed to say 'yeah, they know what they are doing, for real'
     
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  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Yep. Same reason why Cisco doesn't offer it for their mid-level certs. It's prohibitively expensive.

    In an ideal world, yes. Unfortunately, this sort of setup is prone to corruption... all you need is to "know a guy", whether a work buddy who will vouch for you regardless of ability or an "auditor-for-hire" who will vouch for you if the price is right. Too easy to game the system.
     
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  4. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Unlike the current system of course :D

    Oh and ok proctured exams cost more, but a £15k MCA or £10k Master cert ? Kinda one extreme to another, £88 to £15k don't ya think ?
     
  5. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Interesting post as a lot has been said and stated well with clarity. However, when rubber meets the road it is the hands on experience that majority of employers are interested in.

    The cert be it hard copy or transcript copy is just evidence as well as a way to filter for potential candidates for interviews.

    I am only really working on getting the MCSE 2003 owing to the above. Moreover am quite happy to just keep abreast with new and emerging technology as appropriate to my career line and or progression.
     
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  6. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    At least it won't cost as much! :thumbleft

    Qualified evaluators ain't cheap, dude.

    In any case, few people are going after the Master and Architect certs... and it's no wonder why.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  7. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Anything printed on paper, whether certificate or transcript, is subject to forgery. That's why any employer worth his/her salt will request online verification of a candidate's credentials.
     
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  8. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    and of course nobody ever managed to put together a phising site and a dodgy DNS entry ?

    HTML, now thats impossible to fake !
     
  9. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    BS ALERT!!! BS ALERT!!! :biggrin


    What happens if the candidate doesnt care about their carbon footprint and wants a certificate? No harm in that as it should just be an option if you want the paper cert sent out or not, leave the decision to the candidate that has forked out £80 for the exam.

    Wonder if Universities and Colleges are going to do the same thing? It would make graduation day rather dull if you turned up to collect nothing. :biggrin

    It’s all about saving the environment people. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I avoided both of my graduation ceremonies, I guess at least I can say I was 'going green' instead of being a miserable git ! :D

    I guess I can always photoshop a picture of me dressed as batman with a roll of paper and print it out myself... now thats saving the environment !
     
  11. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    LOL! :biggrin

    I missed mine as well, I was on holiday and couldnt be bothered with it anyways. 8)
     
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  12. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    To fake a certification to an employer? I seriously doubt it! :D

    Besides, if they can do that, they probably don't need the certs!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  13. nugget
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    nugget Junior toady

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    Maybe it would be easy to game the system, but at least there would be a trail leading back to the responsible people. As it stands now you can download a BD off the net, pass the exam and there's no trail. If you get the job and someone has to sign off that you can do the work then there's a traceable trail leading back to that person.
     
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  14. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    There's a trail leading to the responsible people who enable braindump companies to gather their content... but you see what little has been done on that front! :rolleyes: How would this be different?

    And if you think there's no trail with downloaded BDs, I've got a huge surprise for you. :)
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  15. nugget
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    nugget Junior toady

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    Surprise me, please.:ohmy
     
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  16. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Let's just say that IP addresses are trackable (as you know). How they could possibly get that information, I'll leave to your imagination. :disguise
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  17. Qs

    Qs Semi-Honorary Member Gold Member

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    BOO !!!
     
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  18. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    Shipping and Handling are $9.95 USD for the first certificate and $0.99 USD for each additional certificate up to 6 total certificates. An Express Shipping option is available for an additional fee. During Checkout, you can view the Express Shipping costs by selecting the Express Shipping option in the Shipping Method section

    Link - not expensive at all really, if you really want it!
     
  19. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    'tis true at many levels.
    I'm an NVQ assessor and I can tell you that the NVQ assessment process is harder work for the assessor than it is for the candidate.
    All the candidate has to do is go about their daily business.
    The assessor has to write everything up, dot the 'i's and cross the 't's, then go looking for any missing evidence.
    Slip someone a few quid and all of a sudden the whole thing is LESS reliable than an invigilated exam, not more so.

    Whenever people get involved things get prone to being messed about.

    I first heard about BD's from an MCT...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD

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