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Microsoft in the wrong here? Response to MCP Flash: July 2009

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by kevicho, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    MCP Digital Certificates Now Available for Download

    To reduce the company's carbon footprint, we transitioned from traditional paper to digital Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP) certificates. You can download your certificate at any time. If you require a paper certificate, you may order one through the MCP member Web site. There will be a shipping and handling fee associated with your order. Give us your feedback on the Born to Learn blog.

    http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/2009/06/going-green-mcp-digital-certificates-are-here

    I know this has probably been discussed but Microsoft recently ended the "free" distribution of physical certification, under the guise of "going green", however I believe as well as many others that this is nothing more than a cost cutting exercise, which fine, however I highly doubt the cost savings will be passed on to us, the test takers who are funding a nice little sideline for Microsoft.

    Anyways take a look at the link and I will not go into a rant, however I feel this is a huge PR own goal, and maybe another nail in the declining value of certification
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  2. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    Totally agree mate.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  3. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    The worst thing is they seem to be ignoring the influx of complaints on that blog, and then post a link to it.

    Stupidity or what.
     
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  4. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    RIP certs 2009.:hang
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    It's been a long time coming.

    Has anyone else noticed that the paper certificates have been getting thinner and thinner over the years and the wallet cards flimsier and flimsier? Not even any good at scraping the ice of windscreens anymore.

    A few years ago I used to get an action pack.
    They used to be delivered in an impressive box delivered by UPS.
    Then the box shrank by about 75% and came via postman pat.

    I guess everyone wants to cut costs and I guess there is no decrease in the number of MS subscribers.

    However, I bet you anything 'going green' doesn't apply to their sales and promotional material.
    I bet that bumf all still comes in glossy packaging with free CDs and ribbons.
    Can you imagine that?
    'Want to know what Dynamics CRM can do for your business? Go to our website and download the pdf!'
    Yeah, right.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Funny enough got my CompTIA Security+ cert through the post this morning (its nice :D)

    I think its just another way to increase Microsofts profit ratio on the £88 myself. No kit, extra £3 (a guess for the cert, postage) for them multiplied by god knows how many test takers per year = An extra yatch for Billy G
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  7. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    I don't know what he'd do with a yatch, but it sounds painful :ohmy :wink:

    It's also another painful nail in the coffin lid for MS test takers in the UK - what will the shipping and handling costs be to get stuff across the pond? We all know how awful the shipping charges are for the (albeit *cough* separate MCP store).

    Thankfully a few managers I know say they only ask for the transcript from potential employees that are certified. The certificates look relatively naff anyway, they're just tucked away in my RoA.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCDST, 70-410, 70-411
    WIP: Modern Languages BA
  8. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    I practically had to give a DNA sample last time I tried to get something through customs.... :blink

    Your managers actually know and care about your certs ? How refreshing...:biggrin
     
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  9. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

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    I think this is a shame really, the certificate was the only part of the package I ever wanted in the first place. Although I'd happily give it up if they could put some value back into the certifications themselves.

    They should move more in line with Cisco and Red Hat and introduce hands-on labs for the MCSE and MCITP qualifications. Yes they'd cost more but they would also benefit your career unlike most of the existing exam offerings.
     
  10. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Absolutely mate! I think this is the only way to catch the braindumpers and blaggers out so would be all for it. Rep'd
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  11. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    Hmm, perhaps I'm the odd one out, I usually am

    personally, I've never given a rats ass about the certificate, and I got my first MCSE back in the 90s with a thick wallet card! and a lapel pin ;)

    Digital certificates are fine by me, the easy transcript tools are even better, and I've never had an employer ask for either!

    MS don't receive a ton of that 88 squid anyway, and remember MS exam prices have not changed in over 10 years!!! not even accounting for inflation
    I'd rather have them spend money on improving the test technology than mailing out certificates to every tom dick and harry who passes a test, you can get a cert for the cost of S&H if it really means that much to you
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  12. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    No agree with you here, my certs are in a drawer somewhere. I think it was more the "were binning them cos were green" we didn't entirely believe.

    Well I never knew that as my 1st MS exam was only this year. I take my hat off too them then if thats the case because accounting for inflation, they must make less per year per exam than 10 years ago. That said the numbers taking the exams have probably grown exponentially due to mainstream acceptance of the quality of their certification tracks. Thanks for the info, Jim
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  13. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I went for a job interview not long ago and was asked to take copies of all my 'relevant certificates and awards'. So I took all mine along and they actually photocopied them all.

    I think that just providing your transcript would be better, as long as the employer knows what it is...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  14. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Its easier if you want to work abroad too, no worrying about your certs getting mashed in your suitcase :D
     
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Cisco doesn't do hands-on labs for their Associate or Professional level certifications - at least, their simulations are no different than the simulations offered on the MCSE and MCITP exams.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Pfffft. Come on, guys... you don't get certified so you can have a piece of paper on your wall, do you? Really? If so, you really ought to re-evaluate your motives for certification.

    The only thing that is important are the little electronic bit flags that are tripped in Microsoft's or Cisco's or CompTIA's database that electronically verify that you are indeed certified. I've not once been asked to produce a paper certificate, or a wallet card, or a lapel pin to validate my certification. However, I HAVE been asked to provide electronic documentation from the vendor's Web site.

    If you REALLY want the certificate, they'll let you download it and print it... come on, isn't that enough? Or are you upset that there won't be a shiny gold sticker on the paper??

    All that said... spinning this cost-cutting measure as a "going green" initiative makes me want to puke. :sick I'm all for Microsoft saving money... but at least they could be honest with me about it. Deceit simply isn't attractive.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  17. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

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    That is what I don't like about this move, the BS they are trying to palm us off with.

    I do quite like to get a physical cert when I pass something and providing they don't charge loads I would probably order one under the new scheme.
     
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  18. JohnBradbury

    JohnBradbury Kilobyte Poster

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    Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant their top tier exams.

    In the same way Microsoft could offer the MCTS exams in their existing format but have the hands on lab for their top tier accreditations.
     
  19. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    So how much are they gonna charge for the cert?
     
  20. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    MS DO have the hands on portion for their top tier tests
    the Master level has hands on, proctored and I believe peer review
    the Architect level has peer review
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0

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