Microsoft goes after cheaters hard, and catches smart students

Discussion in 'General Microsoft Certifications' started by Chopperchand, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    But for every cheater they catch, there will likely be tens of thousands of other testers (and likely some cheaters in there as well) that don't get caught. How many innocent people will get their certification revoked? To date, none. What's wrong with giving this a chance to work? No system is perfect, but most of you guys don't seem to be willing to even give this a chance...

    Why would a guess be counted as cheating?

    Guys... simply answering correctly is NOT what is gonna get your exam flagged... if you read the article, you'll see that there are plenty of other methods other than the answer you choose that they use to detect whether you're suspected of cheating or not...

    This ain't court. It's a privately run certification program.

    Unfortunately, many (if not most) cheaters AREN'T caught when they get an IT job. Many just do a poor job and the good techs have to suffer for it as we clean up behind them. Worse, some employers are reluctant to let them go.

    In truth, it is ridiculously easy to braindump simulations. Simply study for the few things they'll ask you to do, and you'll pass. Sure, at least then the braindumpers should be "able to perform the job tasks", albeit a limited set of them... but it's still cheating.
     
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  2. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Absolutely not. It's still cheating, because you're still studying the live exam questions. And Microsoft, Cisco, and CompTIA have come out and made it VERY clear that they do NOT tolerate the use of braindumps in any capacity.

    There is absolutely no justification for using braindumps. To those who say that they want to use braindumps to make sure they're ready... if you're ready to pass the exam, you don't need the braindump. If you HAVE to rely on braindumps to pass, then you're not ready to hold the certification.
     
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  3. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Braindumps don't just bring down the validity of Microsoft's certifications... they affect ALL of the vendors, CompTIA and Cisco included.

    And, as discussed earlier, would eliminate ANY studying of the theory behind the tasks. I think the theory is a necessary part of being a knowledgeable tech, and you can't test that with simulations.
     
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  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Again, I will disagree. I know several people who cheated on their certifications who haven't been "found out". Some of them are even good techs. Doesn't make it right that they knowingly cheated...
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  5. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

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    The problem with this is an employer is going to expect you to know what you have been certified in, also I would pass on an anonymous tip re your colleagues as they may be stopping some decent honest techs from putting food on their table.

    As for the whole picking the best answer and getting lucky, well in fairness most of those instances you try to work logically through what sounds plausable, what sounds far fetched, so you are at least providing some skills that are needed in IT, such as common sense and diagnosis of a problem.

    I usually find if i get a question like that on an exam then i am likely to remember it after and try to find the answer
     
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  6. Gary B

    Gary B Nibble Poster

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    Given your often holier-than-though attitude that MS will never ruin someones career by falsley calling them a cheat and revoking their certifications do I take it you have reported all the people you know to have cheated to MS?

    Can you tell me what the reaction was from MS

    If MS want to add value to their certs they need to look at the problem which is the format of their exams surely
     
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  7. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Lets not turn this into an argument, eh? 8)
     
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  8. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    ...nice. :rolleyes: Keep up the personal attacks, doofus.

    I'm glad I'm about to head out for an extended period, because unfortunately, I could stand a break from this place.
     
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  9. Gary B

    Gary B Nibble Poster

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    it's not a personal attack at all unlike the name calling but I won't lose any sleep over that. You can take anything you disagree with as being personal if it's something you strongly believe in.

    We both want to get rid of cheats and enhance the reputation of the certification and we both have vested interests other than that. You are in the training industry and as well as the damage to the cert industry brain dumps obviously also affect your livliehood.

    From my point of view as I've stated I've been wrongly accused of something in the past simply because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and as a result I lost my job and very nearly lost my liberty. Mistakes happen and as a result someone could lose their hard earner certification, job and livliehood which you need to accept.

    Nothing is ever just so black or white as you seem to think and I along with a few others are simply trying to put across the other side

    I just think it's more than a little pompous and foolish to believe people will not be wrongly labelled and if they are it's a price worth paying (I doubt the person in question would ever think that)

    Best Wishes
     
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  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    All I am saying is... WHEN it happens... THEN complain.
     
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  11. Gary B

    Gary B Nibble Poster

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    and all I was saying is it's too late once it's happened

    anyway......
     
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  12. Methodman85

    Methodman85 Byte Poster

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    It would honestly make my day if MS called me personally.
    I would probably even put it on my Resume :D Certified AND Verified
     
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  13. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It's too late after someone dies in a car accident. It happens sometimes. Does that mean we should stop driving cars?

    Again, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, particularly when nothing bad has happened yet.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  14. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Michael as pointed out now and in the past nothing is perfect and cheaters will always find a way of cheating. I think this move says more about Microsoft not having faith in their testing system than anything. I think that innocent people will get flagged up as no system is perfect and then how do you go about proving you didn't cheat. Retake the exam? Have a polygraph?

    Microsoft need to catch the people who record the questions and answers and go after the companies selling the brain dumps (which I know they have started to do). Maybe then things may improve or maybe they need to look at the way they test.

    I think with something like this there is no easy solution. I have to disagree about people not being found out. I think IT is one of those jobs that you simply can't do without the know how and if a company is stupid enough not to sack these types of techs then thats there problem.
     
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  15. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Doesn't have anything to do with the testing system. People who want to take the easy way out will find a way to cheat, regardless of testing system. This is simply a way to catch people who cheat under the current testing system.

    Will it work? Who knows? It's far, far too early to tell.

    Why don't we wait and see what happens? According to the article, the first known scrutiny of an innocent test taker resulted in Microsoft asking a few questions and getting off the guy's back. Is that really so bad? :)

    Sure, they do. But that doesn't mean they don't ALSO need to go after the cheaters. :)

    All I suggest is to wait and see what happens. I think it's too early to pass judgement just yet.

    IT is one of those jobs you simply can't do without the know how. But yet people without the know how are still in IT. In a perfect world, you would be absolutely correct.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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