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MCTS, MCPD or CIW Master???

Discussion in 'CIW Certifications' started by funkymix187, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. funkymix187

    funkymix187 New Member

    Firstly I would like to say hello to all

    Secondly I need help!!

    I have been looking for a decent web design qualification to get me out of the hell hole that I call my work place.

    I currently have a HNC in computing and Microsoft Office Specialist and used to be a Microsoft I.T. Trainer. I am now on a helpdesk for the same company as they have terminated the previous roles. I am looking now to change my career direction to web design/development as I received a distinction for the web section during my HNC.

    The two options I have been presented with are as follows and would like some guidence as to which would be the most beneficial to gain me a new job with starting salary of around £25,000.

    Option 1: CIW Master - CIW FOUNDATIONS, CIW SITE DESIGNER & CIW E-COMMERCE - cost £2950 (inc exams)


    Option 2: Adobe/Microsoft .NET

    Entry Level - Adobe Certified (Dreamweaver Expert & Flash Associate) - cost £4450 (inc exams)

    Intermediate Level - Adobe Certified (Dreamweaver Expert & Flash Associate) & Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist ASP .NET Applications - cost £4950 (inc exams)

    Professional Level - Adobe Certified (Dreamweaver Expert & Flash Associate), MCTS - ASP .NET Applications & MCPD - ASP .NET Developer 3.5 - cost £5750 (inc exams)

    Any help would be most welcome.

    Thanks in advance
  2. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

    Why would you need to fork out £5K if you already have a HNC and used to be a microsoft trainer ?

    Don't decent trainers earn a lot more than £25K ?

    If you do not currently know how to develop web sites or write code you should not be certifying.

    Learn your trade, get a job, get experience, then certify...
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  3. funkymix187

    funkymix187 New Member

    Unfortunately there is not much call for Microsoft Office training any more as people pretty much know it all. and yes trainers can earn more than £25K if they are Microsoft Certified Trainers, who train MCSE's etc which I am not.

    Your third sentence is just stupid, the whole point of attending courses is to learn the skills needed to certify but the answer is that I know html and have used MS FrontPage (which is rubbish) and wanted to learn new skills (creating a portfolio while I am learning) then try and land a different job.

    I just needed advice on which certification route people here would recommend (either CIW or Adobe/MS) from people who already have passed and share their experience.
  4. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    You're not going to get quality advice with that kind of attitude.

    What he meant, is that there is a difference between going on a course to learn a skill and certification.
    When you learn to drive, you take lessons until you reach an appropriate standard and then you take a driving test. Holding a drivers license purely tells people that you know how to drive a car - it didn't teach you to drive it. Similar case for certifications.

    You could argue that for some entry level certs, such as A+, it's less of an issue because they are aimed at people starting out and by following the curriculum you pretty much get everything you need to pass the exam.

    Why do you think that Web design is the way out of your hellhole?
    I may get shot down for this, but Web design is getting to be a bit of a dead field to get into. There are so many people who can do it these days, and so many tools that make it easy for those who can't to upload their jumbled abortions to the Interweb.

    The days of the young lad in the villiage who was some kind of wizard because he knew how to 'do' websites is over. Christ, you can even get Word to publish a doc as a website these days.

    Unfortunately too, the certifications lniked to web designing are generally light weight and poor. You're better off buying a couple of books and getting some practice in.

    Web development is something else altogether, but usually requires some kind of programming ability which immediately takes all the fun out of Web design. If you thought it was fun creating an HTML page with an animated 'under construction' banner on it for your HNC then a couple of pages of .NET will instantly rob you of the will to live.

    Up to you of course, but Web design is a way to nothing at the moment.
    Incidentally, where did those prices come from? I take it you're considering a training provider of some kind (cue GBL to pop up and say 'self study'. Mentioning a TP usually wakes him up).

    Oh, and before anyone points out that I'm talking rubbish, I did warn him that it wouldn't be quality advice... :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  5. Josiahb

    Josiahb Gigabyte Poster

    I'm with Jonny on this one, web design is no way to make money at the moment and web development takes a particular mindset to be able to call it fun. Certifications in both tend not to be that heavily recognised ahead of a decent portfolio.

    No its not and as has already been pointed out if you come here with that kind of attitude be prepared to receive nothing more than a slap in the face, dmarsh's statement is based on knowledge and experience, its not even remotely stupid and you sir win the cheap and weak bell end award of the week.
    Certifications: A+, Network+, MCDST, ACA – Mac Integration 10.10
  6. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  7. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

    Well maybe I am 'stupid', but I do have 15+ years development experience, hold 5 x MCTS, MCPD Ent, and various other certs, I've also developed websites for large corporates with over 8 million users. So I do at least have some knowledge on the matter.

    As Jonny mentioned, there are entry level and non entry level certifications.

    If you are not a developer then the MCTS and MCPD certifications are not designed for you, by all means take some courses but not one related to certification. Development is not a passing interest, it requires years of dedication to learn the required knowledge, its an engineering profession in effect.

    CIW teaches basic web skills but will not land you a job, you could get similar information off the web for free, W3C Schools etc, the internet is the best place to learn about the internet.

    Ditch frontpage it is worse than useless, pick up notepad2 and just type in your markup, use firefox and firebug to preview and debug.

    There are distinct roles in the industry, web designer, front end web developer, back end web developer, graphic artist, systems administrator, architect, SEO/e-Marketing, etc.

    Web designers usually use a portfolio of previous sites for clients to win work.

    As mentioned every school kid now has basic web dev skills, don't expect to get a decent job with only rudimentary skills, also its highly competitive at the low end as essentially anyone worldwide could develop the sites in countries where a dollar a day is the average wage, many templates and CMS systems are also available for low cost.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
    Certifications: CITP, BSc, HND, SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA, N+, Sec+, Proj+, Server+, Linux+, MCTS, MCPD, MCSA, MCITP, CCDH
  8. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    Let me make sure I've got this figured out correctly. You come on here ASKING for advice, and then decide that the advice you're getting is "just stupid?"

    It is an understatement to say that Dave and I don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things. But whether we agree or disagree, he is absolutely qualified to give the advice he gave. You would do well to listen instead of speak.

    And for the record... if you don't think trainers can make good money, you're not doing something right. Why do you think the cost of that training you mention is so high? 8)
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. danielno8

    danielno8 Gigabyte Poster

    how did i miss this thread....rep rep rep!
    Certifications: CCENT, CCNA
  10. funkymix187

    funkymix187 New Member

    I would like to apologise to dmarsh for my previous comment. It was asking (what I thought) was a genuine question and started getting abuse from another thread and took it out on you...Sorry!!!

    The prices quoted are from a training company called National IT Learning Centre.

    I have since found a dreamweaver and flash course for combined cost of around £400 inc exams (compared to £4000 from NITLC) so might be following that one up. Unless anyone here can recommend any decent self study books.

    Once I have mastered the adobe products I will move onto javascript and asp.net

    I am creating a site for a family business and will use that as a platform to start the road of self study!!

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