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MCSE 'Paper Certified' People

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by fatp, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. fatp

    fatp Byte Poster

    I met a so-called MCSE last year who had next no knowledge of desktop support let alone network admin /servers. The chap didnt know how to add a pc to the domain...

    Are these people in the market good or bad for the I.T industry?

    (a) They make the real I.T proffesionals with knowledge/certs/experience look good?
    (b) The fill the market with rubbish candidates and ruin the validity of the certification?
    (c) another point of view?

    fatp. :)
    Certifications: Comp Sci BSc, NVQ 2 & 3 IT Professional
    WIP: Comptia A+, Network+
  2. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator


    That is all...
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  3. wagnerk
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

    Professional certifications that are work based, like the MCSE (not to be confused with professional certifications that are academic based) are there to reflect a person's job role, skill set and responsibilities.

    If people are gaining these certifications with no knowledge, the certification becomes useless. Like the MCSE for NT4 and 2k, because alot of people were gaining these certifications without proper experience/knowledge, the market was flooded with "paper-based" MCSE's and level 1 helpdesk jobs were asking for MCSE's. Hence why MS had to change the certification program on the 2k3 route and again with the 2k8 route.

    If then these people are assessed, they will be found out that they are useless even though they have this cert, then generally speaking people will think that all MCSE's are cr*p. And that's how sterotyping starts.

    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
    WIP: PGDip
  4. zimbo
    Honorary Member

    zimbo Petabyte Poster

    bad! IMO your experience should atleast be to lab level in the studying of the cert - if you call yourself an MCP of 290 even and cant add a client to a domain then im sorry but thats a disgrace! :x
    Certifications: B.Sc, MCDST & MCSA
    WIP: M.Sc - Computer Forensics
  5. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    :blink You seriously have to ask? They are bad, bad, horribly bad for the IT industry.
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  6. kevicho

    kevicho Gigabyte Poster

    I Dont believe someone can spend 1 year + (which i think is a fair length of time for someone to achive MCSE) go through all the materials, and learn enough to pass the tests and yet not be able to add a pc to a domain.

    Are you sure the term paper MCSE is right here, sounds suspiciously like hes used other methods to pass the exams
    Certifications: A+, Net+, MCSA Server 2003, 2008, Windows XP & 7 , ITIL V3 Foundation
    WIP: CCNA Renewal
  7. Modey

    Modey Terabyte Poster

    It's paper MCSE's that are the reason for the new definition of MCSE. Minesweeper Consultant Solitare Expert
    Certifications: A+, N+, MCP, MCDST, MCSA 2K3, MCTS, MOS, MTA, MCT, MCITP:EDST7, MCSA W7, Citrix CCA, ITIL Foundation
    WIP: Nada
  8. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

    I agree with Kevicho, if a person has studied for the MCSE the correct way, they would have to be able to add a PC to a Domain.

    This would leave me to belive they used 'Braindumps' instead.
    Certifications: CCA | CCENT | CCNA | CCNA:S | HP APC | HP ASE | ITILv3 | MCP | MCDST | MCITP: EA | MCTS:Vista | MCTS:Exch '07 | MCSA 2003 | MCSA:M 2003 | MCSA 2008 | MCSE | VCP5-DT | VCP4-DCV | VCP5-DCV | VCAP5-DCA | VCAP5-DCD | VMTSP | VTSP 4 | VTSP 5
  9. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    Good point. I've always used the terms 'Paper MCSE' and 'Braindumper' almost interchangably as they are both as much use as a bacon sandwich at a bar mitzvah.

    However, the strict definition of a 'Paper MCSE' is probably just someone who 'knows' how to run a Microsoft network from self-study, classroom courses and/or training videos but doesn't actually have any experience of doing so, whereas a braindumper doesn't know anything except a list of answers to memorised questions.

    For my money they're both useless - in the first case because they think they know more than they do, and can seriously ruin your day by fubaring something up badly, and in the second case because, well, they're just **** aren't they really?
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  10. skulkerboyo

    skulkerboyo Megabyte Poster


    but VERY easy to spot

    They're not quite as scummy as the dump brigade but they still inhabit the same space and most would have passed using dumps, not realise and not care.

    I've had plenty of encounters with these guys. They give us all a bad name and devalue the certification process. I like to take it slow and learn. It seems to have worked as I've been doing this less than a year and I'm in second line already. Loving my job:biggrin (oh and thanks to this forum for immense guidance:oops:)

    Were in an industry where there are alot of people claiming they know this and that. Fortunately any interviewer worth his salt will spot the bullsh*tter or the clueless.

    Take your time and learn it. It will pay in the end and dont worry about the Paper MCSE. He'll still be resetting passwords when your on your third promotion
    Certifications: MCITP:SA, MCSA 03, MCSA 08, MCTS(680+648),A+,N+,ITILV3 Foundation, ITIL Intermediate: Operational Support and Analysis
    WIP: 70-417
  11. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

    I find this hard to absorb and believe as almost anyone can add a PC to a domain:), well maybe not everyone but:)
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  12. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    Good grief. *I* can add a PC to a domain and I don't have anything close to a single MS cert.
    Certifications: A+ and Network+

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