1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Lotus Notes vs Exchange et al.

Discussion in 'Software' started by nugget, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

    7,796
    71
    224
    Does anyone have any sort of experience with Lotus Notes??

    The reason I'm asking is that we have a consultant in to work up an IT strategy for the company. I reviewed his presentation today and I have some issues with the suggestions.

    First off, our needs are (loosley)
    1. Communication: email (and archiving/compliance), calender sharing, mobile solution (blackberry eventually).

    2. Collaboration: very loose at the moment but will be needed for projects and clinical trials.

    3. Document management: file server and maybe database systems.

    4. Patching/fixing/updates of OS and software packages.

    Our solution
    1. It was suggested by the CEO for an exchange/BES server combo so it's okay by me.

    2. We have recently gotten MS Project professional to help with this a little and I think this would also work well with the Exchange solution too.

    3. We have a new server running SuSE linux SLES as the new file server but no DB system yet. We would decide later depending on refined requirements.

    4. Planned to purchase another Win2K3 server license and set up WSUS.

    His solution
    1. Suggests Lotus Notes as it supposedly does it all.

    2. Suggests Lotus Notes as it supposedly does it all.

    3. Suggests Lotus Notes as it supposedly does it all.

    4. Not addressed at all.



    The problem I have with the whole thing is that he seems to be stacking the odds agiinst any other solution other than Lotus Notes.

    He's also added in information into seperate categorys that I know can be done by 1 windows server (such as IIS and sharepoint services). Of course he's put it in that Lotus Notes can do all of it in 1 system. Also added into the equation were 3 different server systems (MS) that we didn't ask for and we don't need along with CAL's for said systems all in an effort to make the price for Lotus Notes look good.

    I don't think I need to say at this point that this guy worked for IBM for the last 25 years do I?

    It seems that the CFO also knows this guy from way back and has also used Lotus Notes quite a bit.

    The problem that I have is I would like to implement the best product for the solution, not just the only product I know. I don't know much about Lotus Notes but from what I've read it does a lot of things (all of them?) quite well but nothing fantastic.

    I would rather have several products that address each problem specifically and do it well rather than a one size fits all product.

    I know that a lot of global enterprises have implemented Lotus Notes but would it suit a company of 30-40 people?

    I'd appreciate anyones views. Thanks.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685
  2. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Hmm no comment..

    You might want to trawl through some of these...

    http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=notes+vs+exchange&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  3. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    Mate
    are these guys IBM consultants?
    I hate to be blunt, but getting a vendor involved has a pretty predictable outcome
    a Vendor will push their own products, nowt you can do a bout that

    you should try and liase with one of your local VARs who can help understand the extact business drivers and understand what your trying to achieve then formulate a technical strategy with a vendor agnostic approach, that will be far more valuable an engagement than speaking direct to big blue.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  4. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

    7,796
    71
    224
    Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier mate. To answer your questions...

    This guy isn't currently an IBM rep. He's retired now and does a little consulting on the side to supplement his pension, but he did work for them for the last 25 years or so.

    The CFO (new guy) has known him for about 8 years now and got him in to do an IT strategy for us because we "need one done" and this guy doesn't cost as much because he's retired.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685
  5. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    The whole point of a strategic engagement is not about cost, it wouldnt be very strategic if it was
    i spend my days engaging in stategic plans with clients, and trying to adapt a lot of tactical thinking into more strategic thinking

    point is you get what you pay for mate, and this guy is going to push big blue without a doubt by the sounds of it, try and get him to talk about technology and not product, you dont need to know about product in a strategic engagement, you need to know about technology
    sure a collaboration platform and a mobility platform can and probably would benefit you, you dont however need to choose which one until you have finalised your strategy going forward
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  6. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,191
    299
    319
    I’m surprised the guy is pushing Lotus notes so much even though he is ex IBM. I have worked for IBM and they didn’t even use Lotus Notes internally, everything was MS. Also the contracts we were working on were all MS based, only the hardware was IBM.

    Going back to the original ‘needs’ post:
    1) Exchange Server 2003 SP2 (You can use push technology before rolling out blackberry)
    2) Sharepoint with SQL Server
    3) Sharepoint with SQL Server
    4) WSUS

    That should do it! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  7. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

    7,796
    71
    224
    Thanks for the pointers guys. I've also cut out a few pieces of info from a presentation that I think are a bit unrealistic. Let me know what you think.
     

    Attached Files:

    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685
  8. Bluerinse
    Honorary Member

    Bluerinse Exabyte Poster

    8,871
    167
    256
    Hmm yes i find it a biased comparison but then i am a Microsoft junkie through and through and i have no real experience of using Notes.

    We really need somebody with vast expereince of both to add their point of view.
     
    Certifications: C&G Electronics - MCSA (W2K) MCSE (W2K)
  9. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    man i hope your boss aint that easily persuaded
    thats the biggest load of crap i've seen in a while :)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  10. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

    6,199
    125
    199
    Is that cost comparison at the bottom real? :eek:

    The only people on these boards that I know have some dealings with Notes are LeeHaa and Nelix. Might be worth PMing them to get their take on it.

    8)
     
  11. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

    5,726
    175
    221
    im a qualified CLS on notes 5, used it for a couple of years at one of my jobs
    not on the architectural side so i cant confirm prices
    however a lot of what they are touting is utter rubbish

    for instance the increased cost of exchange 2007 being 64 bit only, thats a given, and every server bought in the last year has also been 64 bit pretty much

    also the fact it does not run on VS2kX
    VS2kX is not supported for production systems anyway, so its again, a moot point
    PKI, IIS, Replication is all built into either Windows or Exchange 2k7 anyway, again, moot points
    Outlook 2007 is required to get full benefits of 2k7, but 2k3 works fine too

    Notes power used to be the fact you could build applications that were tied in to the notes database
    however unless you use that functionality (and want to hire a notes developer to do it) again its an advantage thats not required
    Exchange integrates with sharepoint and allows collaboration of users at the user level, with no developer requirements (although developers can make huge enhancements to how things work)

    I'd really sit down with the guy and tell him quite bluntly product does not interest you, you have asked for a strategic direciton not a product comparison
    and i'll say it again, STRATEGY IS NOT PRODUCT DRIVEN

    hope that helps nuggy mate! :)
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, VCP
    WIP: > 0
  12. AJ

    AJ Administrator Administrator

    6,771
    102
    221
    I'm with Ryan here. We are completely Windows here and will move to Office 2007 over the summer Hols. Exchange 2007 a while after. The whole M$ suite, server, office, exchange, sharepoint et al fit superbly together and provide most solutions.
     
    Certifications: MCSE, MCSA (messaging), ITIL Foundation v3
    WIP: Looking at doing ..................
  13. nugget
    Honorary Member

    nugget Junior toady

    7,796
    71
    224
    Just as an update to an ongoing saga,
    my boss just bought 2 of these on Friday to try out. Now, as to the new purchase I have more questions (as always)

    1. Is Lotus Domino server a standalone server system product (like windows server 2003) or would I need a win2K3 server to install this on? The reason I ask is that I can't find anything on the IBM site about it.

    2. Using a Domino server for email is it possible to push the mail to a windows mobile system?

    Maybe they have included a lot of functionality in the new versions but the funny thing is that he pointed out that we would use COTS applications.



    You never cease to amaze me mate. :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP (270,271,272,290,620) | MCDST | MCTS:Vista
    WIP: MCSA, 70-622,680,685
  14. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    3,748
    330
    187
    Jesus.
    Mary.
    ...and Joseph.

    Quite apart from having glaring inaccuracies all over the place, the basic standard of English is utterly appalling!

    Are you really going to trust the development of your forward communications technology strategy to a 'consultant' who struggles to 'communicate' with you effectively?

    'Principal' instead of 'Principle'?

    Sentences, that have random, commas inserted at, inopportune places?

    "Collaboration is not defined along the line of mail and calendaring" WTF? That sentence makes NO sense at all!

    This kind of thing really irks me - why can't people who are responsible for developing strategies even use a decent standard of written English?

    I'm not an MS fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. I find a lot of their licensing ridiculously complicated and unnecessarily expensive, their 'competitive' business practices predatory in the extreme and their habit of using their massive user base to perform all but the most basic of beta-testing on their products extremely questionable.

    However, the 'consultant' you've been dumped with seems hell-bent on selling you a Big Blue solution - even if this means telling you lies to do so.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  15. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,191
    299
    319
    Nugget,

    Do you have to support all this IBM kit if it goes ahead? Might be worth investing in products (from MS) that you are more familiar with and fit in with the ‘needs’ of your company.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  16. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

    4,140
    58
    214
    Holy cow!

    You say this guy's retired?? Maybe he should stay retired:p

    I can't help wondering when I read the word.doc attachment, if this guy has shares in Lotus Notes?

    I have use Lotus notes and installed it for some of the departments at work! It's not strictly Lotus notes but acts like a foundation to another part of database that is used by the British Heart Foundation. So there's no way getting around it, it's slow and out dated compared to some of the stuff used on the market today.

    I am not going to repeat what is said hear by the members on this thread, apart from their advice is spot on:super

    But it would be an unwise decision to use Lotus notes.8)
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  17. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

    5,763
    35
    174
    UCM,

    I can predict that it'll eventually be one of those "I told you so" moments :D
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  18. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

    4,140
    58
    214
    Not sure what you mean by that Wizard?

    Can only assume you have still got alcohol in your vains:biggrin
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  19. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

    5,763
    35
    174
    Its when you advise someone to do something, they do the opposite and when it works out they should of listened to you in the first place then you say "I told you so" :D
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  20. UCHEEKYMONKEY
    Honorary Member

    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

    4,140
    58
    214
    Aaaaah Now I see, mmmmmmmmmmmm Good Point!:biggrin

    Did you wear your party shirt last night?
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+

Share This Page

Loading...