1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Linux - its place in IT?

Discussion in 'Linux / Unix Discussion' started by Angry Dog, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. Angry Dog

    Angry Dog Nibble Poster

    61
    0
    28
    Hi,

    I know that I arent going down the Linux route cert wise, im just wondering where Linux takes its place in IT?

    I know its mainly used as a server, but do people ever see it becoming more and more a home user os?
     
    Certifications: IT NVQ level 2/3
    WIP: MCDST, A+, N+
  2. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    No, not really. Linux is great as a server. But retraining a bunch of desktop users to use Linux instead of Windows would be a financial and productivity nightmare for a company. Not worth the cost.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  3. Angry Dog

    Angry Dog Nibble Poster

    61
    0
    28
    I thought that may be the case.

    I assume most servers for Linux are command line based - RH and the like?
     
    Certifications: IT NVQ level 2/3
    WIP: MCDST, A+, N+
  4. Angry Dog

    Angry Dog Nibble Poster

    61
    0
    28
    Michael,

    I was wondering if I could possibly send you a PM please? I could do with some genuine advice as I am very confused as to the road I should go down?

    Thanks.
     
    Certifications: IT NVQ level 2/3
    WIP: MCDST, A+, N+
  5. BosonJosh

    BosonJosh Gigabyte Poster

    1,326
    28
    89
    I would think most Linux server administration would be done from the command line. If you want to learn Linux, I would suggest getting a feel for the command line even though most distributions now offer a pretty good GUI.
     
  6. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

    991
    44
    74
    I know some people who use linux as their home OS but they tend to be Open Source Warriors with a complete hatred of software you have to pay for.

    IN Business it will usefully integrate with a windows based network and will often provide soultions for problems that it would be expensive to solve in windows.

    It has it uses like any other piece of software
     
    Certifications: A+,MCP, MCDST, VCP5 /VCP-DV 5, MCTS AD+ Net Inf 2008, MCSA 2008
    WIP: MCSA 2012
  7. Willlee

    Willlee New Member

    5
    0
    13
    We have a Linux server at my place of work for the VLE. we use command line based interface. I believe a lot of Linux servers do.
     
    WIP: mcse
  8. Shinigami

    Shinigami Megabyte Poster

    896
    40
    84
    Our business uses Linux/Unix (Sun Solaris) based servers heavily (I would think that a number of company's in the financial sector do). We have a nearly 1 to 1 ratio of Windows and *nix servers (and there's a few thousand of them).

    When I observe my fellow Linux admins going about their day to day jobs, they're mostly working through command line shells. Not much GUI interaction, mostly through SSH. A fellow colleague of mine is quite the wizard when it comes to working *nix stuff. He's had exploits fixed in common releases of source code updates, hacked our Steelheads, and when you see him type away it makes your head spin. A very smart guy, I tip my hat off to him.

    Now if only we could move a little faster on providing these guys with a unified logon system akin to Active Directory :D

    I would setup NIS tomorrow if they let me, but instead they want to go through a much more complicated LDAP synchronization process... oh dear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
    Certifications: MCSE, MCITP, MCDST, MOS, CIW, Comptia
    WIP: Win7/Lync2010/MCM
  9. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Sure - go right ahead. :) I'm not sure I can offer a magic solution... but I'm willing to give you the best advice I can.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  10. Amine

    Amine Byte Poster

    133
    4
    20
    *Nix is an absolute beauty, we have few Unix boxes and they are wicked! I get to play on our test systems an do some program install in production...Now that I am getting the hang of it I am enjoying more & more.Scary really considering I am supposed to be a Microsoft guy.
    As far at *nix in a corporate environment, it is big in the financial/distribution sector, fairly big in the rest. People with linux skills are always in demand; MCSE/ RH Cert / Experience is a winner on any CV IMO.
    My 2 pence worth
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
    WIP: Exchange
  11. Angry Dog

    Angry Dog Nibble Poster

    61
    0
    28
    I think I'll stay away from Linux - I dont want to confuse the issue lol.

    Just interested really to know its place. I've dabbled with it before, but never got far, especially as it was a GUI Distro - Ubuntu 8.10.
     
    Certifications: IT NVQ level 2/3
    WIP: MCDST, A+, N+
  12. Angry Dog

    Angry Dog Nibble Poster

    61
    0
    28
    I've sent you a pm Michael - thanks :biggrin
     
    Certifications: IT NVQ level 2/3
    WIP: MCDST, A+, N+
  13. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

    13,493
    179
    287
    Most people forget about embedded linux devices. Linux is just all over this market space, but because it's "invisible", most folks don't associate the devices with the underlying OS kernel. Chances are, you use Linux on a PDA or other small devices and you're just not aware of it. Here's wikipedia's take: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_Linux
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  14. ally_uk

    ally_uk Nibble Poster

    57
    4
    5
    I use Linux on a day to day basis wether it be administrating servers, to using my home machine. I came originally from a Windows background started out back in the day with 3.1 and wasn't really aware of the whole Open Source side of technology until I started a new role and was shoved in front of a Debian machine, My initial reaction was Linux what the hell is Linux? and it's been a strong relationship ever since then.

    Linux for me represents freedom having the ability to do whatever you want to a system without being locked in software, required Service packs and various other Microsoft anal crap.

    Linux has a strong place in I.T if have the skills and capabilites to administrate and deploy Open Source solutions and make them coxist alongside Windows machines then you have a good advantage, After all if you can demonstrate that you can spend half the time and cost deploying a Linux solution as opposed to a Microsoft one (bearing in cost of License per machine time it takes to install drivers, updates, service packs, and additional software such as office) Then this is a advantage.

    I myself do not see the point in spending money on a product when I can achieve the same result using Open Source Products, infact there pretty much is a Open Source Alternative for any Windows program.

    Small Companies, Charities and Social Enterprise can benefit from Linux Skills, after all these guys have a limited budget and ideally would want features such as email, File Sharing, website, Printer Sharing. And Linux can do all of this for free saving them massive amounts of money.

    People are scared of the unknow they assume Linux can be very technical, They see Windows as the only option out there. Both Operating Systems have there advantages but don't you just hate being greeted by a blue screen of death lol

    Linux will continue to be the main operating system I will use to be honest I find windows boring and the only use I have for it is playing games. I hate being locked into Microsoft products, hate having to apply service packs, Having having to dip my hands into my wallet with each release only for it to bring a limited set of new features. Maybe things are different with Windows 7, but I though Vista was the biggest pile of crap to grace computing apart from ME.

    My thoughts keep learning your Linux!
     
  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    Locked-in software? I can install any software I want.

    Required service packs? I'm not required to install ANY service pack by Microsoft. I only HAVE to install a service pack if an app requires it.

    You're letting your hatred of Microsoft cloud your logic and reason.

    Agreed. But it's typically MORE time consuming to roll out a Linux machine.

    I also agree that you should go with the cheapest solution. But you're looking ONLY at the licensing and time aspects. You also have to figure in the cost of someone to administer Linux, and they're generally much more difficult to find (usually making them more expensive) than people who know how to administer Microsoft-based OSes. But that cost is usually a drop in the bucket compared to the time and productivity lost in retraining a staff on how to use Linux.

    You and I might find Linux just as easy and just as comfortable as Windows. Most "normal" people - the non-techies who we support - do not.

    Unfortunately, we admins can't always decide what OS we're gonna roll out in a company. And you're simply not going to be able to convince most companies to roll out Linux on the desktop because of what I have mentioned above.

    Yep. Good thing I haven't seen a blue screen of death in YEARS. A good admin can usually avoid those, ya know. :rolleyes:

    You *really* weaken your argument when you resort to such tactics. Just sayin'.

    Ah, you decided to buy into the misinformation too, eh?

    Good luck with Linux. Let us know how that all works out, k?
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  16. ally_uk

    ally_uk Nibble Poster

    57
    4
    5
    I dont have a hatred for Microsoft I just think Linux is leap years ahead, your the Microsoft fanboy by the sounds of it,
     
  17. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

    19,136
    462
    374
    I would direct your attention to my list of certifications. Not just Microsoft there, is there? 8)

    But... thanks for playing anyway. NEXT!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  18. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,191
    299
    319
    Microsoft and all of the other major software vendors practically give their software to charities, I’m sure you have done your homework on that right? There is also a neat product called Small Business Server that does a fine job for Small Businesses (shock, horror!)


    All fully documented I’m sure for the next admin to take over whatever you have created? A script for this and that I’m sure but I’ve seen Linux admins struggle to take on someone else’s network as the “freedom” to do what you want can create total confusion. My solution is simple, rip the whole lot out and put in a well constructed Windows environment which seems to work fine.

    Any decent Windows admin can do this is a short period of time. Plenty of imaging solutions available as you know and also built into Windows 2003/2008. Updates can be automated for WSUS as well.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  19. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

    10,191
    299
    319
    Didnt realise CLI was a new feature. :biggrin


    Only kidding mate, fair play to you pushing the whole Linux thing but the MS stuff you have posted reminds me of a guy called Freddy, you may know him. :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  20. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

    3,748
    330
    187
    This argument has been done to death - neither side will 'win'. As someone who has used both Windows and Linux, over more years than I care to remember (or count), I can safely state that both have their good points, and both have their bad.

    The two points that irk me most when made by Linux Warriors are, firstly, that it's free - so people like charities and schools benefit immensely, and, secondly, that it's easier to use than Windows once you know your way round the OS. To refute both those points I will, as I often do, use examples from incidents that I have either encountered, or have directly affected me recently.

    On the first point - I semi-regularly volunteer at a charity - because they can't afford to pay for a network/server admin. They have the usual hodgepodge of crummy old servers, crummy old desktops and crummy old network equipment. A couple of weeks back I suggested to them that, when replacing their mail gateway (imminent, due to the server being older than my teeth) they should look at getting a Linux box in to do the job, as it would be cheaper than Windows. They laughed at me - actively laughed at me. "Why should we do that? You're a volunteer here - because we can't afford to pay anyone with the skill to run a bloody Windows server/desktop environment. How are we going to afford someone who also knows Linux?".

    So, if you're running a datacenter, or webhosting, or a business that is heavily invested in Linux already, it makes sense to pay the inflated salaries that Linux nerds command (because 'Oooooooh - they're scary clever! They use a Command Line!!). If you're not, and can't afford them, why would you bother diverging your environment at all, when it's entirely unnecessary, and expensive to do so? Keeping tabs on costs of infrastructure in a business is much more than worrying about the 1500 quid you'd spend on an MS O/S (it's actually a fraction of that for most registered charities in the UK - I believe most pay about £120 for a copy of Server 2003/2008 Enterprise) - you have to consider the TCO - and that includes salaries of the staff to run everything.

    On the second point - I'm a security admin by speciality (though that's changing as I'm now in a role where I do a bit of everything and am moving much more in the direction of storage and virtualisation) so know my way around most Linux distros through necessity (no-one runs security on a Microsoft platform - despite ISA 2004/2006 being the best Layer 4 and up firewall there is - because of the historically bad security reputation Microsoft (deservedly) has). That didn't stop me having to waste about an hour of my life this week doing the exact same thing I've done on at least 20 different occasions (getting SGUIL up and running on a Linux box. It just would not play ball on this occasion - despite me using the exact same steps I'd used before - making some ridiculously vague complaint about TCL being threaded - which I then had to Google and figure out that the version of TCL I was using was not compatible with that kernel, and then recompile from source, and reinstall packages and....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    In the end I thought 'F*** it, life's too short for this s***' and just fired up my other box and did what I needed to do with that. Guess what that 'other box' is running? Yep - Windows.

    Now this may come across as some silly rant about the Linux fanbois from a die-hard M$ veteran, but it's not. Trust me, it's not. Windows is just as crap as Linux. It's difficult to work with (just like Linux), causes me no end of grief at work (just like Linux) and is the source of endless cursing and sighing when things don't do what I expect them to do (just like Linux). See the pattern there?
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em

Share This Page

Loading...