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Linux - employed for UK Goverment

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by Miro, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. Miro

    Miro Byte Poster

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    I've heard that UK Goverment is planing to get Linux on board. Suppose it should save milions of pounds or more even. Can someone know more about it? Please do not tell me I can google it cause I would like to hear you particular opinion on this :D
    As well Linux Certifications- I think they will become more popular in near future. More and more businesses start using Linux OS's or Linux bases applications ( open office for example).And they need someone to run it smoothly.
    I personaly use Ubuntu and I am happy with it.
    However I like Windows 7 already too.
     
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  2. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Really? :blink
     
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  3. Miro

    Miro Byte Poster

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  4. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If you want my opinion, I'll have to say I disagree. I have yet to see a single company roll out Linux-based workstations. Not saying there's not one out there... but realistically, I don't see it happening in a widespread manner - not for a while yet.

    Is learning Linux useful? Absolutely. Do companies implement Linux as some part of their organization's computers? Many do, yes, typically as servers or appliances. But are a bunch of companies about to make a wholesale shift to Linux? Not a chance.
     
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  5. Miro

    Miro Byte Poster

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    Thanx for you opinion. I think you are right. In my workplace there is only Linux based server but not even one Linux workstation.But I have met some small businesses ( up to 10 workstation) and they were using Linux as desktop os.
     
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  6. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Linux is well established in the server market. There are lots of reasons for this, both good and bad, which I won't go into here.

    However, in the desktop arena Linux will NEVER be as successful as Windows, simply because everyone who works in an office already knows how to use Windows. What the Linux proponents singularly fail to realise every time they spout on about Linux being 'better' than Windows is that it is absolutely immaterial whether or not one O/S is 'better' than the other. Its a straightforward fact that, of 100 people who come to your office to interview for a non-technical job that involves using a computer (probably 95% of jobs in the modern workplace), approximately ONE of those people will be Linux-literate enough to be able to use it as their day-to-day O/S. If I'm making decisions for my company based on those sort of figures, I know which O/S I'm putting on my desktops!

    One observation I've made about the Linux vs Windows debate is that the Linux nerds appear to still be living in 1998. Windows is nothing like the O/S it used to be. 2K3/XP are ten times more stable than any flavour of Linux I've ever used. Granted, back when dinosuars ruled the Earth (Windows 9X/NT) Windows was about as stable as a drunken one-legged man on a trampoline. Times have changed.

    In short, if you're working in the server end of the industry, sure it helps to know a little Linux. I can work my way round most Linux environments now - but I know where I prefer to do most of my work - good ol' Windoze XP
     
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  7. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Just to add to what Zeb has said even taking MS Office off desktops can cause problems. A few customers I support use Lotus Notes or Novell Groupwise so no Outlook to be seen which causes hours of pain for any new employees that have used Outlook in their previous job(s).
     
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  8. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    LOL!

    The next time I see a drunken one-legged man on a trampoline I will think “Hmmmmm, that guy reminds me of Windows 98” :biggrin
     
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  9. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    LOL - I'm pretty proud of that one myself! Almost as good as one at work t'other day, talking about a Dell engineer: "He's about as much use as the Dostoevsky novel on Colleen Rooney's bookshelf"
     
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  10. ffreeloader

    ffreeloader Terabyte Poster

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    Untrue.

    Munich and Mannheim Germany have rolled out Linux on the desktop successfully. Munich will be 80% Linux desktops when finished and until the changeover is complete OO will be the office suite of choice on Windows machines. Mannheim has 37,000 Linux desktops.

    The Department of Education in Indiana is moving to Linux on the desktop for the entire state. They've already rolled out 20,000 desktops as of 2006. Kenosha, Wisconsin has been entirely free of MS OS's and software for more than 10 years now. They have become a major point of interest for many more cities looking to cut IT costs. It's a regular event there for other cities to send the heads of their IT departments to study what Kenosha has done.

    The Windsor School District in California is all Linux. There are no Windows machines left. That's 5,000 students and 250 teachers. The cost to upgrade Windows for all 7 schools was an estimated $100,000. It cost them $2500 per school to move to Linux.

    The Bexley City school district in Ohio started moving to Linux in 2007.

    The entire state government and educational system of Georgia, by the Black Sea, not the state in the US, is going to install Ubuntu.

    So, nobody using Linux in massive rollouts? Hardly. Just because you have an agenda to keep MS usage high because you make money writing books for MS certifications isn't reason enough to remain ignorant of the facts. But then I've seen how you twist the facts about Cisco's stand on the usage of open source tools to study for their certifications. And again you have a dog in the fight, as you work for a company that provides proprietary software for preparing for Cisco certs. Cisco says they have no problem with open source tools being used to study for their certs even though they don't officially recognize them. Plus, they say they are working on ways to officially recognize those tools. You, on the other hand, claim Cisco is dead set against them because they don't officially recognize them and that a person risks getting a Cisco cert revoked if a person uses the open source tools.
     
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  11. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    You want to talk about 'agendas' Freddie? How about someone who hasn't posted here for about a gazillion years just popping up to further his own agenda - advancing the Linux 'cause' at the expense of Windows.

    I, unlike Mike, have no product to sell yet have pretty much the same viewpoint as him - and stand by everything I said in my post - Linux has about 0.01 percent of the desktop market and this is as likely to change in the foreseeable future as Charlton Athletic are to win the Champions' League.

    And the ill-advised rant at the end of your post where you seem to be saying that Cisco not only turns a blind eye toward the use of Dynamips (I presume that's the tool you're getting at as that's the one that's usually mentioned) but is actively trying to work out a way of officially recognising it as a study aid? Just plain wrong. Cisco is far from ambiguous about the use of the Cisco IOS - it CANNOT be used outside of a Cisco device - other than in Cisco's own simulator (Packet Tracer). Trying to state anything to the contrary is an extremely irresponsible thing to do - particularly when there is the very real prospect that newer forum members or those just browsing may take what you say as gospel.
     
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  12. UKDarkstar
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    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Hmmn, I seem to remember when the whole Linux thing started to take off a few years back a load of the London Councils jumped for it. They were highlighted just a few years ago as they were all switching back to Windows ! :p

    For me, I have advised businesses. Businesses need to keep operational and, at the end of the day, MS will provide support direct for an incident fee - then you have access to the guys who produce the goods. I just don't see this as operating as effectively in the Linux market given all the different "flavours". It's not good tellig the MD of a vompany that his system is down whilst you wait for some Linux community help off a forum etc. (ok I'm exxagerating, but you get my point).

    As to apps, I have used and recommended Open Office in the past, every time it's been switched back to MS Office.

    Ok, so I'm also biased coming from an MS background but I do try to see both sides. I can't stand it when people become entrenched in one side of the argument and can't see the pros and cons to both sides.
     
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  13. BosonMichael
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    If you read my post again, you'll notice that I didn't say that nobody is using Linux in massive rollouts. In fact, if you read carefully, you'll find I said quite the opposite. While there ARE a small handful of companies and government agencies who ARE rolling out Linux, there aren't enough to say that there are even a tiny trickle of companies doing it.

    However, the question isn't, "Are some large companies or government agencies moving to Linux?". The question was, "Are a bunch of them moving to Linux?", and the answer is, "No; only a very, very few are."

    <looks at certification list>

    Yup, I still see Linux+ there.

    I'd be quite happy to write books and/or products for Linux certifications. Oh wait! I have! But... you don't care for real facts like that, do you? Just the ones that you want to look at! :rolleyes:

    Actually, no, they didn't say they have no problem with people using their IOS outside the Cisco hardware. Cisco Legal was quite clear in their response to me, which I posted. If you want to ask them yourself, please do; I've got a contact name for you.

    I've also said (multiple times) that, while using their IOS on Dynamips is against Cisco's licensing, Cisco isn't likely to come burn your house down for using it. Still doesn't make it legal to do.

    I've also said (multiple times) that Boson would LOVE to legally be able to use Cisco's IOS... instead, we're forced to pay a bunch of programmers to code the a simulated IOS from scratch and continuously improve it with new features. If we could stick to just writing high-quality labs for the real IOS, that'd be great!

    Note that we practice exam providers don't seem to have any problem selling Microsoft-based study products despite the fact that our customers can use Windows in a virtual hardware environment. It'd be quite the same thing.

    But, again, you see only what you want to see.

    I think it's time for CF to ban a troll. Or, you can just go back under the bridge you crawled out from.
     
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  14. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Personally I lump them all in the UNIX/BSD/Linux category these days, large vendors are behind multiple linux distros. UNIX was one of the original stable mainframe OS's, it and its derivatives have been used for mission critical apps for 40 odd years, NT/Windows 2000 was a redesign from the ground up and borrowed many UNIX concepts, thats the only reason you now have a stable windows OS. To state that Linux is less stable than windows seems incredibly unlikely. Yes windows is finally a viable OS, is it miles better than Linux, no it isn't.

    I've got no axe to grind, my first proper os was AmigaOS, then I learn't VMS at uni, I've programed for AmigaOS, VMS, Dynix, Linux, Embedded Linux, Solaris, OSE RTOS, but by far most in fact probably 90% has been for various flavours of Windows over the past 16+ years. I'm as hooked on windows as anyone, doesn't stop me from critizing its faults.

    Linux rollouts are happening a fair amount in europe I'm told, but yes the market penetration of Windows is huge and the inertial mass of large corporations takes decades to move. We'll proably be fried by global warming or run out of oil before attitudes change. However a balanced view from people like yourselves would at least help matters.

    Personally I value freddy's opinions as I think he brings some much needed balance to the forums and I don't think he is a troll. Some people on these boards seem to assume the right to bully others with different viewpoints.

    Commercially supported Linux distros are available, look at Redhat or IBM. This is just more microsoft FUD.

    peace ! :)
     
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  15. UKDarkstar
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    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Lol :biggrin

    I think I still need to be convinced but I may be getting there !
     
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  16. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I was the one who was personally attacked, my friend... if you don't believe that, read again.
     
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  17. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Yes some of the comments were probably unwarranted.

    You're a christian aren't you ? So forgive him...
     
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  18. BosonMichael
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    To be able to forgive him, he must first want to be forgiven, and I doubt that's gonna happen.

    Additionally, you've got the wrong idea of Christians if you think Jesus called for Christians to be doormats. Just because someone persecutes me doesn't mean I should lay down and take it.

    That said, I will continue to pray for him.
     
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  19. mattstevenson

    mattstevenson Byte Poster

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    That's a bit flippant, isn't it?

    Anyway, my opinion is that ffreeloader is probably crossing the line and being too aggressive about his point of view. I'm quite a fan of the Linux community, how everyone helps each other, most software is totally free, how it constantly strives to provide a better user experience whilst maintaining the proven power. But what ffreeloader has said in this thread doesn't really have that spirit about it, it's just aggression and shouting for his cause. I wouldn't vote to ban him, but I don't think it's a helpful post, and I don't think that bringing up one's religion is appropriate either.
     
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  20. dmarsh

    dmarsh Terabyte Poster

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    Well people seem to bring up their religons when it suits them, I'm fine with leaving it out, but if its ok for them to mention it then its ok for me too surely ?

    Actually it was supposed to be a slightly tongue in cheek reference to a Bill Hicks routine.

    Freddy has been a valued member of the community in the past, unfortunately hes does get regular ribbing by windows fans which probably explains his slighty over the top post.
     
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