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Ladies at interview

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Leehaa, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Leehaa

    Leehaa Gigabyte Poster

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    Just out of interest, do those of you that have advertised 2nd / 3rd line roles get many females applying?

    What would you say the ratio was roughly for 1st, 2nd, 3rd line roles of Men to Women?


    Cheers :)
     
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  2. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I see more women in first line personally, I think a lot of them diverge to team leader/management roles after 2nd line, I see VERY few in a 3rd line and above capacity, although I have met a few architects who were female

    PLENTY of IT managers who were female though
     
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  3. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Yeah! agree as I have seen the same too, my last manager was a lady too and quite roburst technically as well.
     
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  4. Theprof

    Theprof Petabyte Poster Forum Leader

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    Same here the manager at my place is a lady but the vp is a guy.
     
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  5. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    My predecessor was female (IT manager position). So far we've advertised twice and out of a total of about 25 applications (for trainee IT tech/IT tech, so in essence level 1 & 2) had only 1 female apply.

    -Ken
     
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  6. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    My experience is much like Ryan's... a lot of first line, a few second line. Many switch to management tracks, some not even in IT. I only know a couple who are at a relatively advanced level.

    Out of all the people who applied to be my replacement at the healthcare place (before working for Boson), we interviewed five. Three of them came from resumes that were sent in, and I asked two other people, who I knew previous jobs, to apply. Only one was female - she was one of the ones who I knew already, and is one of the two females who I know that are at a relatively advanced level.
     
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  7. zcapr17

    zcapr17 Nibble Poster

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    I am currently recruiting for two Windows Server 3rd line support roles - I have interviewed a female candidate today as it happens.

    I would estimate that approx 10% of the cadidates that I interview are female.

    Out of about 10 appointments that I have made in my team in the last 3 years (mixture of perms and contractors), I have recruited one female.
     
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  8. sunn

    sunn Gigabyte Poster

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    In most of the places I’ve worked, much less than 10% of the true techie roles were held by women (1st – 3rd levels support). Most of those companies were small to medium sized organizations. The place I’m at now is definitely a large enterprise and the ratio is probably closer to 35% women (maybe that’s higher than reality but I’m estimating).

    Like others have stated, the larger percentage is in 1st level support (~25%); 2nd level has the fewest (~3%); and 3rd level has a higher percentage as well (~7%).

    Our VP of Telecom is also a woman, but I can’t say she has influenced anything as she’s held the role for very short period of time.

    Personal experience of conducting interviews for a new NOC had less than 2% of the resumes being from females.
     
  9. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    I know it's more of a 'being hired' thing than an 'applying for' thing, but it makes me wonder how much a part the old-fashioned attitude 'women shouldn't work in IT' is playing here?

    I've had one boss treat me as his secretary and had other hassles in various jobs (including being turned down for a job specifically for being female) - do you think a lot of women are just giving up?
     
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  10. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Pffft. Why would it matter what gender you are? If you can do the job, people will want you as a co-worker.

    Honestly, I've rarely encountered any instances of IT managers OR IT techs not wanting to work with a woman.

    If anything, I'd *rather* look at a woman all day than some grungy dude. :D
     
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  11. harpistic

    harpistic Byte Poster

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    Sadly, in this day and age, there is still a lot of sexism in the industry here in England, and discrimination against women working in this male-dominated industry. Bear in mind too that this is London I'm talking about, and not some little village in the countryside.

    Sorry if you disagree, but that's reality over here.
     
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  12. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    I think that men in IT still far outnumber women. While there are women who work in my office, there are only men on the R&D team (software developers) where I'm assigned. I've seen women in QA, Marketing, and HR. There are other women I've noticed in the building, but I don't know on which teams they work.
     
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  13. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    Yep. And there are still a lot of pisstakers in london irrepsective of what sex they are. Last time I interviewed for a second line role HR made us interview three women in the process. None of them made it past the first interview because they were useless - two of them had MCSEs as well.

    It doesn't matter what sex, colour, creed or anything else you are - if you can do the job, can demonstrate it at an interview and have relevant experience I will hire you.

    Incidentally, the DBA where I currently work is a woman - she's great. I also used to work with a female geocoding expert - one of the leaders in her field worldwide. I've also had the misfortune of working with two women who were absolutely shite - both helpdesk operators.

    I still maintain (I've said this before on here) that if you are reasonably skilled as a female in IT the world is your oyster - particularly in larger companies that have dedicated HR deaprtments dealing with recruiters. provided your CV is up to scratch and you have experience, you're pretty much guaranteed an interview in some places - especially the public sector - when you get beyond first level. Its so rare for a female CV to pass across my desk that I nearly always interview them.

    I also once interviewed someone just because of her name - it was Boadaceia! (she was crap, before anyone asks)
     
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  14. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    The reason why there aren't as many women as men in IT isn't because they're being pushed out... it's because most women don't find technology nearly as fascinating as men do. If they did, there'd be just as many girl gamers as guy gamers, and just as many women as men building their own computers from scratch, and just as many women as men programming games from scratch, and just as many women as men doing all manner of technology-related stuff outside the IT career field. But there's not. Most women simply do not find this stuff as entertaining as we guys do. That's neither right nor wrong... that's just the way it is.

    Those women who DO find it interesting, I welcome with open arms. Wait... my wife might not like that too much. Well, just allow me to say to any women who enjoy IT, I salute you! :salut Errr, wait, that could be misconstrued as well. :oops: So... uh... allow me to say to those women who like to stay abreast of technology...

    :blink

    ah, crap, I'm just digging that hole deeper, aren't I? :unsure
     
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  15. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    I don't think that it's the old-fashioned attitude 'women shouldn't work in IT'. I would prefer it if there were more women working in IT. I believe that this comes from the fact that alot of women (and parents of children) associate IT with what is being taught in the school subject ICT, which is basically how to use the office suite. There was a study done and the general thought of working in IT was linked to jobs like being a secretary/office admin.

    Understandable, why work in IT with a starting salary from £10k when you can start working with IT from £13k? Alot of people do not make that distinction. Another reason why IT is struggle to being a profession in it's own right.

    -ken
     
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  16. tripwire45
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    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    Glaring generalization time. I'm not saying you aren't right here, but how do you actually *know* what women (or anyone) really think? For example, while I find various aspects of IT fascinating, I find computer gaming amazingly boring and mind numbing (on the other hand, I *do* like such "mind numbing" activities as watching TV and films). I can't imagine why anyone over the age of 15 enjoys first-person shooters but despite my perceptions, many people who I respect and believe to be very intelligent seem to actually enjoy these activities.

    There are probably lots and lots of reasons why we don't observe as many women in technical fields as men besides any sort of "natural" disinclination of women towards these fields. If you look at other traditionally male occupations such as law enforcement, firefighting, military combat careers, and so forth, you'll see significant resistance from the males in those professions regarding including female co-workers. Generally, the women who do have the drive and courage to enter those professions have to "out-male-the-males" in order to be even sort of accepted.

    There's a whole "nature-vs-nurture" argument that could develop here in terms of "do girls play with Barbie dolls because it's natural or because society encourages girls to play with dolls and not war toys" question. I don't have the answers and probably no one else does either. All we can do is make opportunities equal to all and let the chips fall where they may.
     
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  17. BosonMichael
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    I have no idea what each particular woman thinks about gaming. But most women just don't dig gaming. If they did, there would be more of them. Subscribers to PC gaming mags are largely male, members on gaming forums are largely male, people who attend LAN gaming parties are largely male. Thus, I don't have to know what they think. I just have to look around at those who enjoy what I enjoy... and there are few women there. Look around here. Look on Anandtech.com. There ARE women... but there aren't as many women as men. Is that because WE keep them out? Is that because WE make them feel unwelcome? Of course not.

    I never said that "all gamers like working in IT" or "all people who work in IT like gaming". However, you'll find that a large number of IT folks do enjoy gaming. More than half? I have no idea. But in all the places I've worked, there were usually a bunch of techs who enjoyed gaming. Some, like you, do not. That's neither good nor bad - it's just something you don't enjoy.

    I don't push my sons towards anything... I make it all available, and they choose. Like most "normal" boys, they choose cars and super heroes (and even computers) over Barbie dolls and doll houses. Brandon did play with a doll house at preschool for a while, but he lost interest. Had he wanted one, I would have bought one for him.

    Do I believe in "nature" or "nurture"? I really don't know, and really don't care to figure it out. I only know what I see with my own eyes. My sons, my nephews, and their guy friends act like boys for one reason or another; my little sister, her girl friends, and my son's female friends act like girls for one reason or another. Doesn't matter why, does it? They just do.

    So... it doesn't matter why many women don't immerse themselves in technology. I simply see that they don't. I'm glad that SOME do. Trying to artificially force more women into technology isn't doing anyone any good if they don't truly ***enjoy*** it. That said, nobody should should try to stop or dissuade women who DO enjoy technology from pursuing an IT career. Those who do discriminate based on gender don't have any place on my team.
     
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  18. Phoenix
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    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    That's debatable Mike

    I agree the majority of online communities are male driven in the gaming field, but the same is true of my photography forum, but when we have get together its nearly always half women

    the common train of thought there is 'men talk about cameras and pictures, women are outside taking pictures' and that could be true for games too, most the women I know who game do not spend any time on forums, websites, they just play the games!

    Like trip I also believe that being a tech doesn't always go hand in hand with being a gamer, most the female techs I know don't game.. most the female gamers I know wouldn't want to be techs :)
     
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  19. BosonMichael
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    You guys are so totally not reading my posts. :D
     
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  20. Arroryn
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    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    Some interesting posts here :) but I think it may be a fear of treading into new territory as opposed to anything else that keeps women from a career in IT.

    It's not just the 'tech' side of things, as you can choose to work in an industry that would also maintain your overall level of enthusiasm - IT support doesn't just mean working "in IT", every sector needs technological support of some variety.

    But whilst the percentage of men to women remains as it is, and the media keeps on pumping out stereotypes, it's just not a sexy career to get into. You say at school "I want to do IT" and they say "you want to what?". Unless I want to be an ICT teacher. That, apparently, is reasonable.

    Being an IT tech - doing our job - is still ladelled with dollops of 'brand stereotyping'. I read and write fantasy fiction, I write on internet forums, I used to really enjoy gaming (waiting for Spore to come out at the moment before I give another portion of my life over to a computer game, but really love Elder Scrolls games). When they found out I wrote fantasy novels, one of the members of staff where I worked turned around and said "my god, you really are a geek, aren't you?" Yeah I am. So what? I enjoy this stuff. Heck, I even do Warhammer. But a lot of women just... don't. And it's the media that pumps it out at them. Women play with dolls and doll-related accessories, and when they grow up they like shoes and dresses and make-up and all the expensive boring paraphenalia that comes along with that. Sorry but... no. I'd rather stick a blunted pencil through my eye and gargle razor blades.

    Movies such as Swordfish and the Matrix have tried to make 'tech' look sexy and cool, but the reality is it isn't sexy and cool. It's a difficult but rewarding career. A lot of it is also physical, and despite the fact that women are calling for 'equality' with men, not many are prepared to admit that for equality, you need to do equal jobs, and that includes hauling around CRTs and scrabbling under dusty desks plugging in things for the lazy gets that couldn't check themselves.

    I think you get more female IT managers as the management of IT is a less hands-on role, and depending on the industry, may need less technological awareness. You may get loggers and floggers, but where the role is truly hands on, I think less women apply as less women are prepared to get their hands dirty and chip their manicures. It's not male discrimination, or any of that crap. You just need to have the (metaphorical) balls to apply yourself. The world is the oyster to anyone who is willing to put in the effort, and they alone will reap their rewards.
     
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