Just IT recruitment

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Shinx2k6, Aug 11, 2009.

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  1. Simon Perriton

    Simon Perriton Bit Poster

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    You are right it is advertising my company. But what I supposed to do? The comments that people were making were wrong and misleading. I can’t sit back and do nothing - would you?

    I was thinking of asking people who have done the programme at Just IT to start blogging on this forum. Do you think I should do that?

    The important thing for me is that people see a balanced and fair representation about the strengths and weaknesses of Just IT.
     
  2. chuckliddell

    chuckliddell Banned

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    you can start asking people to blog on the forum because we know it be artificial, stop insulting us and know this company is a scam
     
  3. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    See Simon - this is why people who work for companies attempting to defend their position on internet messageboards never works. You come across as looking like a whinger. It's not within your remit to ask the moderators to remove posts you don't agree with. People sometimes post on this board to share their experiences with a particular training provider. Whether you like that or not is neither here nor there.

    And don't you realise how silly it is for you to insult the poster's English and pick holes in his spelling? In one breath you say you 'only teach a certain number of students per year', indicating that they are all carefully vetted before being 'accepted' onto the courses you provide so that you can ensure they are ready for working in the real world, and in the next you completely give lie to that by picking holes in the English of someone who has studied with you in the past - and will therefore have already passed the <sarcasm>stringent vetting procedures</sarcasm> your admin staff put all your potential students through.

    We've been peeved on this board from time to time by people whining about training providers. In fact, I think some threads have even been closed because of it. I don't think we've ever had a training provider come on and whinge about specific posts and threaten to have them taken down before though.

    The simple piece of advice I would give is that, if you don't want people moaning about your industry, stop advertising your company's services as something they're not, and stop accepting people onto your courses who should be quietly and efficiently turned down, rather than signed up for thousands when they have no right even looking at an A+ exam, let alone progressing onto an MCSE track.
     
    Certifications: A few
    WIP: None - f*** 'em
  4. SimonD
    Honorary Member

    SimonD Terabyte Poster

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    Actually that would really go against you, just because you don't like the content of a post doesn't mean you have the right to get that content removed (of course if it was posted on your own site then of course you do but on a public website where everyone has the right to post their views?? not a chance).

    With regards to my site visit to your premises, as I mentioned I came on the visit to help someone out who was thinking of coming to your company for training and job placement, after my visit to them I have to admit to advising them not to bother. Why?? well please remember this was a number of years ago but at the time I didn't actually feel comfortable, I came into your company pretending to be someone with little experience (like the person I was doing this for) and as someone with several years under my belt the spiel I was getting sounded very good but in actual fact I just knew better (I already had several certifications under my belt but from your staffs point of view I had nothing), some of the claims were wild and amazing and were not really very likely.

    Now I understand that this obviously does work for some of your clients but I still believe that someone starting out in IT has no right to MCSE certification yet that was something that was being offered to me that time. When I hire people for work I want them to have 12+ months experience in the technology before getting the MCSE but some people I see come straight off a course with little to no experience, that causes those people with both the experience and the certifications a lot of hassle because it makes the certification somewhat worthless.

    I think that we will have to agree to disagree with your business model, the fact that it works for you and your company is great but does it actually work for ALL of your students? The only reason I ask is that you\I can always find someone to say what a great experience was had but what about those people who were mis-sold the course or who didn't find work in 12+ months? Where is their input and feedback? You have to accept that there are always going to be good and bad press when it comes to service offerings and you just have to live wiht it. It would actually make it easier to accept from out point of view if these were more widely acknowledged, that you put your hands up and said 'yes, ok we screwed up with that person, as a gesture of good faith we are doing this* for them' * being more training, reduced costs on prior training etc (after all you're offering payback via salary deductions aren't you?).

    As an aside I also don't know what kind of prices you're charging for your training but what kind of % of salary is being clawed back by you for their training (and what kind of margins are you working on when you place the candidate)? One thing that I can see you're getting is a double dip, not only are you getting money from the client to place the candidate with them but you're also getting paid back by the candidate for the training you provided them.

    I still stand by my initial view that you would be better off having two different companies that don't work off the back of each other, why not build up the Training as a dedicated entity offering just training, don't poach the candidates for your IT recruitment arm and vice versa, as a candidate I don't want an IT recruiter selling me more training, how I certify is up to me and isn't something I want a recruiter to be involved with (and the same with my training, I don't want my training provider getting me a job, not unless it's actually directly with them).

    You have the ability to make both of your enterprises really good without utilising each other and I think you would be better off splitting up to do just that.
     
    Certifications: CNA | CNE | CCNA | MCP | MCP+I | MCSE NT4 | MCSA 2003 | Security+ | MCSA:S 2003 | MCSE:S 2003 | MCTS:SCCM 2007 | MCTS:Win 7 | MCITP:EDA7 | MCITP:SA | MCITP:EA | MCTS:Hyper-V | VCP 4 | ITIL v3 Foundation | VCP 5 DCV | VCP 5 Cloud | VCP6 NV | VCP6 DCV | VCAP 5.5 DCA
  5. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    See Simon? Like I said before, we get a lot of this on here.
    No offence meant to Chuck, but here is someone who attended one of your courses (assuming he's not just trolling) who clearly struggles with English, as you have pointed out, and basically didn't have a clue about what he was supposed to be doing there.

    Now, I'm prepared to believe that he may be an isolated case - but as Zeb has pointed out - the only reason he was on your course in the first place is that one of your employees signed him up for it. If we follow your own explanation of how things work, he would presumably have applied for a job in IT - encouraged by a tidy looking salary. He would then have been contacted by a 'training consultant' (who are personally overseen by you) and told that he was very nearly ideal for the job, but would benefit from a bit of additional training first.

    So, he signs up for a technical course without the basic pre-requisites (like being able to type in English) and is left totally bewildered about what he is doing there. I'm reading between the lines a bit here, but I'm assuming there was some sort of problem with getting out of the course or getting his money back (there always is) - in the shape of some additional hurdle or obstacle that needs to be attempted in order to comply with the small print in the contract.

    I'm not necessarily saying that any of this is your fault. At the end of the day, you employ people. What sort of targets do your training consultants and trainers have? How are they incentivised? I'm prepared to believe that you are passionate about your company and your beliefs. But things could be going on under the radar - and of course it's easy to look the other way when the quids are rolling in.

    While this sort of thing is going on (either intentionally or accidentally), there is always going to be a general mistrust of training providers that operate the way they do. Which is a shame.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  6. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    I've been reading this thread and my 2 cents are that I agree it is wrong to advertise jobs and then say offer training to the ones that aren't successful. I'm not saying Just IT do that but if they do then it is misleading and wrong. Fine if you want to run a recruitment agency and a training agency but you should separate them (which I believe you are doing) but then don't have any cross over otherwise you are going to come across as exploiting the failed candidates if your training arm then contacts them to offer expensive training. I firmly believe this is exploitation if that's what you do.

    I also don't agree (and apologies if this isn't what you do) in offering 5 certification courses one after the other for people getting into IT over a short period of time. How can anyone do the A+, N+, MCSE and CCNA and expect to walk away knowing what they are doing in a professional capacity. All these types of TP's are doing is giving them a fancy paper cert and very little else. I don't see an issue with someone with no experience starting off doing an MCSE if they study correctly and in my eyes that takes 2-3 years with no experience.

    I do think you are up against it Simon on these forums due to the constant posts from people being mislead and their bank accounts left empty due to conmen taking advantage (not saying you do that) and preying on people's dream of having a career in IT when in fact some of them have very little chance. I also don't blame the training providers alone as people have to have some common sense in what they are signing up to and take responsibility for their actions in signing thousands of £££ away with doing very little research in the first place and then complaining about it when it's too late.

    To me the whole industry needs to be regulated and the con men of training need to be brought to justice. Also all these 5 in one cert bundles need to be banned period. Maybe then people would start to get some faith back in companies like yours.
     
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  7. chuckliddell

    chuckliddell Banned

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    i paid the full fees and i am quite frankly not happy, i will come down and have a talk with you simon and even take this to court eventually.

    complete scam
     
  8. force1

    force1 Bit Poster

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    Ok forum members I thought I’ll share my experience with you and did take Simon up on his offer to contact him. Why did I do that because he is fighting back at the allegations being made about his company being a ‘scam’ and the quote when he said “I care about people reaching their potential (our candidates, my staff and myself)’. I’m currently looking for a job at the moment and I have had agencies phone me about potential jobs but that’s usually as far as it goes. So, I thought I’ll give him a call and explain to him about my situation and see if he really is passionate about what he does.
    Well first of all he did thank me and said I was the first to call him, and he even offered to return my call due to cost. That wasn’t a problem with me as I have free minutes (I don’t mind having a pint though I know there’s a few good pubs in Liverpool St!!) I’m not going to give a full run down of what we said as I don’t want to bore you, but after having explained my situation and emailing my CV to him whilst on the phone, Simon come across as someone who knows his stuff, is passionate about what he does, and very professional. I asked him about his company, talked about how he started it and with whom, where he’s at now and what his goals are in the coming years. (We spoke for almost an hour, very open guy). He made some excellent points that I hadn’t considered in regards to contacting agencies, refreshing Cv’s, mock interview techniques whilst on the phone. It usually takes me a few sec’s to work someone out and to be honest I can say I felt Simon to be a genuine person.
    So my feelings are basically the same as before I contacted him, as they are now. I personally do feel some the forum members are giving him hard time. Here’s a guy whose built a company that’s been running for 10years, and you have people who are basically just arrogant and saying ‘this is got to be a scam company’. I think anyone in their right mind would step up and defend what they have achieved. On another point, if he’s been scamming people for 10 yrs do you really think the appropriate authorities would still let him operate? Of course not. He would have been shut down years ago. The scammers are the ones that build up a company, cheap premises, take money off students, declare bankrupt and do the same again with new premises, naming, advertising etc with a quick turnaround. But having said that the recruitment industry is a very bad one with agents who really just mess you around, its hard to find a good one and the way Simon has comes across on the forum to defend his territory shows me that, hey perhaps this is one of the ‘good guys’,’ I’d like to speak to him and see if he came help me with my situation or at least point me in the right direction. I’m not expecting him to wave a magic wand and I’ll have a job, most of the hard work has to come from the candidate, he can use his expertise he has accumulated over the years to point and guide me in what I doing right or wrong and he probably has dozens of contacts who may help.
    To the original forum member and any others that come across this. My advice is pick up the phone and phone the training centre, go to their premises, ask to see the director of the company, find out how long they’ve been in business, ask to sit in on a ½ or 1 day course. It’s a very competitive market out there and I’m sure most companies will oblige. i know I’ll get the usually ‘right we’re not falling for this post, your one of Simons buddies !’ well I can tell you 100% I have never heard or met Simon until I contacted him yesterday. It’s a shame that he has offered various ways for those who think there’s something not right here to speak to him but not one person has taken him up on that offer. I’d suggest to Simon that this thread will go on and on and on. (That’s the power of the internet unfortunately). You’ve done your bit and perhaps it time to let this go, people will always counter back when you reply. It was good talking to you and I hope people do contact you and find out the real you and what you are about and your vision for your company.
    Cheers
     
    Certifications: 70-647
    WIP: 70-640, 70-642, 70-643
  9. force1

    force1 Bit Poster

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    +1 totally agree here.
     
    Certifications: 70-647
    WIP: 70-640, 70-642, 70-643
  10. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    But who regulates the regulators?

    There have been various attempts in the past, such as the ODLQC and the IITT, but ultimately these end up being self-serving to the people doing the regulation. The TPs who are a 'scam' can still operate on the right side of the law and consumer protection can usually do little to intervene. Unfortunately the situation isn't helped by the deluge of students who constantly whinge about being 'scammed' because they couldn't be bothered to turn up to the classes, found the work too difficult or failed an exam - despite the TP not having done anything wrong.

    And the government has got enough problems at the moment - I can't see them setting up a 'regulate the TPs' taskforce right now.

    As Simon P has already said in all honesty - there are some simple steps you can take to stop yourself making a costly mistake, it's just a shame so many people fail to take them. The only one he missed off is 'if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is...' :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  11. Simonvm

    Simonvm Kilobyte Poster

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    You've joined just a week ago and all but one of your posts were about Just IT...
    First, you come ask for information and reviews about this company, and now you're claiming that it's a scam already?

    This post is just a copy paste from this this review at reviewcenter made at the 2nd of november.
    Maybe you should mention that in the future, or is it your own review?

    Mind telling us exactly about your situation, and how it relates to this training provider?
     
    Certifications: MCITP: EST, MCDST, MCTS, A+, N+, CCNP, CCNA Wireless
  12. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Totally agree as a lot of people who feel hard done by don't do their homework on the TP or the course they are taking and when they are in too deep they pull the it's the TP's fault to cover their own stupidity. When I booked a course with QA I knew they had a good rep but I almost read every page on the net on QA for any potential issues or complaints and posted here first BEFORE parting with my hard earned money and my wife's and couldn't afford to make a mistake.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
    Certifications: A+ | Network+ | Security+ | MCP | MCDST | MCTS: Hyper-V | MCTS: AD | MCTS: Exchange 2007 | MCTS: Windows 7 | MCSA: 2003 | ITIL Foundation v3 | CCA: Xenapp 5.0 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Administrator on Windows 7 | MCITP: Enterprise Desktop Support Technician on Windows 7
    WIP: Online SAN Overview, VCP in December 2011
  13. Netfinder

    Netfinder Bit Poster

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    CF is a great resource when it comes to guiding you in the right direction regarding certifications etc. But like previous members have said, it is up to the individual to do the relevant research when it comes to Training providers. I had an appointment with a TP some time ago, but after dissecting their terms and conditions, and searching for independent reviews on the internet, I realised that it just wasn't for me. That together with the great advice I received from CF was invaluable. So whether you selfstudy or go via a TP do your research!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  14. force1

    force1 Bit Poster

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    & always pay by credit card, you're protected anything over £100. a friend of mine payed a few grand for a mcse +ccna course quite afew years back, well by the time it came to start the course the company had gone into administration. he got his money back from the credit card company.
     
    Certifications: 70-647
    WIP: 70-640, 70-642, 70-643
  15. Simon Perriton

    Simon Perriton Bit Poster

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    I would appreciate this insight as well as you clearly want to meet up and talk things through. You state;

    i paid the full fees and i am quite frankly not happy, i will come down and have a talk with you simon and even take this to court eventually.

    but earlier on the 29th October;

    should i pay for this and garauntee a job? i went there and thier office and the actual company seems very legit

    So I don’t know what to think!!. Are you looking for feedback from the forum members on my companies services which you felt looked legitimate, or are you going to take whatever issue you have to court? Either way it would be good to talk to you.

    I expect other people may be concerned about this as well since several posts have involved comments around your specific situation and your experience with my company.

    Sadly I did not get any calls today from anyone to do with this forum. I find it increasingly difficult to compete with the strength of bad feeling out there about the industry that I am in. I have done my best to put forward some of my passion for my company and what we have developed and try and correct some of the confusion on the service we offer. I hope it has been useful to some.

    The only way forward, I feel, is to encourage (for the last time on this forum) some people to talk to me on the phone or to visit me and then report back their findings to the forum. Thanks for your input Force1, hopefully more will follow.

    This is perhaps my best chance of demonstrating my desire to grow a business through the support of people into IT careers and helping them reach their potential.
     
  16. zet

    zet Byte Poster

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    I've noticed you didn’t address the issue of helping under qualified candidates become over qualified by helping them gain certs without the necessary experience?
     
    Certifications: BSc, MSc, A+
  17. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Fair play to you, you've done a brave thing. It may end up helping you out, it may not. Time will tell.

    Unfortunately, most members of this forum are people who are already certified, know how to get certified on their own, or simply don't have a clue what's going on. Either way, it's not really a group of people who are likely to call you up for advice.

    Which in itself is a shame, because you seem like a guy who wants to help people. If your company/employees are going about it in the way you would want remains to be seen...
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  18. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    I'm actually working in London next week Simon so I'd love to the chance to come and rack your brains with the questions every new IT person has, and every seasoned IT professional has too (IE explain under-qualified and overqualified). So yea, I'll take you up on that offer, it's often easier face to face, it's certainly quicker. Also means I can report back here with a Training Providers answers to the difficult questions they should have answered years ago, and allow your company to explain it's position a bit more clearly. (I certainly don't believe in training providers as a whole and see them as damaging for the most part.)
     
    Certifications: MCITP:VA, MCITP:EA, MCDST, MCTS, MCITP:EST7, MCITP:SA, PRINCE2, ITILv3
  19. Simon Perriton

    Simon Perriton Bit Poster

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    Sounds great. It's nice to see the way this post is progressing now. Do you want to call me to arrange a day/time that suits.

    I understand your point about training providers as a whole. I am exciting about the opportunity for you to assess my company and hopefully give me insight about how I can continue to develop my service to people looking to get into IT. I am sure alot of people will look forward to your report.

    If anyone else whats to come and visit my company just drop me a line.

    My number direct dial is 0207 426 9836.

    Regards

    Simon
     
  20. chuckliddell

    chuckliddell Banned

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    BIG SCAM, they take your money and leave you out to dry
     

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