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Job help!

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by Jellyman_4eva, Apr 20, 2007.

  1. Jellyman_4eva

    Jellyman_4eva Byte Poster

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    Hi all,

    Just hoping someone can really help a fellow certforum member out...

    I am looking for a job desperately now, after having been fairly patient and registering with several recruitment agencies (totaljobs, reed, monster, cwjobs - the list feels endless) I seem to be getting nowhere...

    I am looking to get some real experience with server 2003, linux etc etc but everyone seems to be calling me saying you have an MCSE this is the requirement for the job, but when it comes to it, employers seem reluctant to take me on, no matter what I seem to do, because I have no "real world experience"...

    This is becoming a real worry for me, as I feel as though I am hitting my head against a brick wall, and all I am trying to do is progress.. my current employers cannot help me out either, as they have a full server admin team as it is, so I really am stuck!!

    Any ideas or help!!
     
    Certifications: MCDST, MCITP-EDST/EDA/EA/SA/ MCSA 2K3/2K8, MCSE+M 2K3/2K8, ISA/TMG, VCP3/4, CCNA, Exchange, SQL, Citrix, A+, N+, L+, Sec+, Ser+, JNCIA-SSL, JNCIS-SSL
    WIP: Lots
  2. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Just a quick thought, but you could try downgrading your CV so that it doesn't look as full of certs.

    Too many certs and no experience can send out the wrong signals.

    On the other hand though why should you pretend to be less skilled than you actually are?
     
  3. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    If you're looking for jobs that require the MCSE, then you're probably looking for jobs that are out of your experience range. If you're like most people, you don't want to get an entry-level IT job... but that's exactly what you have to do to build experience to be able to get the bigger and better jobs. Suck it up and just do it, and a year or two from now, you'll be glad you got it over with. Otherwise, you'll keep looking and looking and get nowhere... and you won't be building that all-important experience.

    No, you won't be configuring servers or routers in an entry-level job... but no employer will hire someone without experience to be a network or router or security admin. You have to start somewhere. Build experience, and you'll start being allowed to work upward in your career, I promise you.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  4. Jellyman_4eva

    Jellyman_4eva Byte Poster

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    Hi all,

    Thanks for the replies!

    SimonGrahamUK - I did think about removing some certifications but then I did think why should I? How is this going to help me!

    BosonMichael - I am in an 2nd Line position at the moment, and have been for the last 2 years so I am not in an entry level job at my current location, but the problem is I have been basically told that there will be no chance for progression where I am as there is simply not enough room within the server admin team... so if I want to go further with this, I have to leave where I am... Yes I could play the waiting game and stick it out for longer, but that means I am basing my future on something completely out of my control...

    When I was told of the lack of progression, I looked around and saw employers were asking for certifications... MCSE etc, so I decided that I could do that and be ready when I decide to start looking... now is that time... but its seeming like a bad idea now...
     
    Certifications: MCDST, MCITP-EDST/EDA/EA/SA/ MCSA 2K3/2K8, MCSE+M 2K3/2K8, ISA/TMG, VCP3/4, CCNA, Exchange, SQL, Citrix, A+, N+, L+, Sec+, Ser+, JNCIA-SSL, JNCIS-SSL
    WIP: Lots
  5. derkit

    derkit Gigabyte Poster

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    In my current 2nd line role, the job description asked for MCSE - I have nowhere near that level of qualification yet, and since arriving have found out that the highest is a MCSA - I wonder whether its a method to cut the wheat from the chaff??
     
    Certifications: MBCS, BSc(Hons), Cert(Maths), A+, Net+, MCDST, ITIL-F v3, MCSA
    WIP: 70-293
  6. tripwire45
    Honorary Member

    tripwire45 Zettabyte Poster

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    When an employer asks for an MCSE (or whatever) cert as a qual for the job, they are asking for "the perfect candidate" knowing that they'll never get one. It amazes me that employers expect first and second tier support positions for not very good pay will attract a lot of MCSEs.

    I suspect what employers are actually saying is that they'd like someone who has the real world experience of an MCSE or the experience of someone who is moving along that track. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the term "paper MCSE" was coined to describe a person who had the actual certs but no experience. The MCSE supposed to verify that the person has the experience to administer a large Windows server system but they are more commonly used to verify that the cert holder is a good student.

    If you want to move along, keep your current job (you have to pay the bills) and start looking for an *equivalent* job or one slightly higher on the chain. When you get interviews, ask about opportunities for advancement. Most employers expect that their employees will continue their professional education. Let them know that you see yourself as a junior server admin or some such title in a year or two. Employers sometimes actually ask you "Where do you see yourself in one year...in five years?" That is a golden question for someone like you.

    It's clear that you've hit the ceiling in your current position. Unless someone on the server team leaves or dies, you have to option there. Start looking around but don't expect to leap frog into a position you have no experience for. Aim at something a bit lower but make it plain in your interviews that you want the opportunity to move up the ladder.
     
    Certifications: A+ and Network+
  7. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Jellyman, do not limit yourself for anyone or for an employer judging that you already have 2nd line support experience. Unfortunately in the UK most IT agencies use the MCSE to put candidates forward for roles even if they don't have the required in dept hands on experience.

    On the other hand no job is easy to acquire in the IT arena you just have to keep on applying for roles and do not let the turn downs put you of as it's part of the job hunt. I believe an employer would be willing to take you on sooner than you'd expect.

    Don't just base your hope on landing a server admin role solely on your technical know how as employers also want employees that can think outside of their technical abilities. In essence this means your communication and customer handling skills coupled with how this would help in aiding the business in achieving its aim long term.

    Best regards and don't give up, am talking from experience and yes here in the UK as well.
     
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  8. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Agreed - awesome advice. There are plenty of jobs where you can work the equivalent of "2nd tier admin" and start getting some server-based experience. Your best bet would be to start looking for a job where you can take a sidestep to an equivalent position, but one where you can move upwards in your career.

    Best of luck!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  9. Jellyman_4eva

    Jellyman_4eva Byte Poster

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    Hi all,

    I think I may have been a little depressed yesterday, after reading everyone's replies I feel a lot better and more positive about the situation...

    Trip, thats an excellent reply and thats what I shall do, start looking for similar roles etc..

    Thanks to everyone, I will keep everyone updated as to the progress!
     
    Certifications: MCDST, MCITP-EDST/EDA/EA/SA/ MCSA 2K3/2K8, MCSE+M 2K3/2K8, ISA/TMG, VCP3/4, CCNA, Exchange, SQL, Citrix, A+, N+, L+, Sec+, Ser+, JNCIA-SSL, JNCIS-SSL
    WIP: Lots
  10. Jellyman_4eva

    Jellyman_4eva Byte Poster

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    Hi all..

    Just an update to my post I sent a while back...

    Things have been pretty hectic, but now I am pleased to say, I am due to start my new job next month!!

    Nice pay rise, a lot more responsibility, and I also literally cut my travel time + costs in half...

    All is good! And to think it was my first interview (100% success rate!)..

    For anyone looking for a job and having trouble like I was, here is proof that it can be done!
     
    Certifications: MCDST, MCITP-EDST/EDA/EA/SA/ MCSA 2K3/2K8, MCSE+M 2K3/2K8, ISA/TMG, VCP3/4, CCNA, Exchange, SQL, Citrix, A+, N+, L+, Sec+, Ser+, JNCIA-SSL, JNCIS-SSL
    WIP: Lots
  11. hbroomhall

    hbroomhall Petabyte Poster Gold Member

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    Well done - and congrats on the new job!

    Now you know it *can* be done! :biggrin

    Harry.
     
    Certifications: ECDL A+ Network+ i-Net+
    WIP: Server+
  12. Sparky
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Congrats on the new job! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
    WIP: Exchange 2007\2010
  13. wizard

    wizard Petabyte Poster

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    Congratulations :D
     
    Certifications: SIA DS Licence
    WIP: A+ 2009
  14. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Congrats!
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
    WIP: Just about everything!
  15. onoski

    onoski Terabyte Poster

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    Good news and congratulations. It is possible especially with some effort:biggrin
     
    Certifications: MCSE: 2003, MCSA: 2003 Messaging, MCP, HNC BIT, ITIL Fdn V3, SDI Fdn, VCP 4 & VCP 5
    WIP: MCTS:70-236, PowerShell
  16. Boycie
    Honorary Member

    Boycie Senior Beer Tester

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    Great news! Well done :thumbleft
     
    Certifications: MCSA 2003, MCDST, A+, N+, CTT+, MCT

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