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IT student loses compensation bid after getting a 2:2 degree

Discussion in 'The Lounge - Off Topic' started by TheITCrowd, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. TheITCrowd

    TheITCrowd Kilobyte Poster

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    An IT student who says he can't get a job because he got a second class degree has had his bid for £5m damages from the university he claims let him down thrown out by a High Court judge.

    7:00AM GMT 16 Feb 2011

    Tony Chinedu Wogu was awarded a 2:2 in Computing Science at the University of Bradford last summer, after completing a one-year course following a two-year HND at another institution.

    But the Nigerian student felt hard done by and, in an unprecedented legal step, applied to the High Court to bump it up to a first. He also asked for £5m compensation, alleging discrimination and breach of contract.

    Today, however, a senior judge in London struck out his case, saying academics had a much better understanding of the quality of a student's work than lawyers did.

    Representing himself, Mr Wogu told the court he "did his best" in his degree, but was hampered by alleged racism, out-of-date equipment and unsuitable staff.

    Handing over some of his dissertation with a witness statement, he told Judge Andrew Collender QC that three white students had been allowed to bring their own equipment into class whereas he had been banned from doing the same.

    Mr Wogu also said lecturers drafted in from other departments did not have the level of knowledge he expected of them, and he had not gone through the university's appeals system because he feared he would be told "to eff off".

    Breaking into tears twice during his submissions, he told the judge he had not been able to get a job because of his 2:2 and felt the university should be hit with punitive damages.

    Andrew Miller, for the University of Bradford, said the matter should be struck out because Mr Wogu's case was "incoherent and makes no sense", and his £5m claim was "unsustainable and unrealistic".

    He told the judge: "The claimant's documents reveal that to continue with the claimant's claim would be a waste of the court's and the parties' time and resources, especially given the fact that, on the defendants' submission, the claimant has no real prospect of success."

    Judge Collender QC agreed and struck out the case.

    He told Mr Wogu he could ask for a judicial review of the university's decision to award him only a second class degree if he felt it was "unreasonable", but he should lodge an internal appeal with the institution itself before bringing the matter back to court.

    The judge said: "This court has the most limited of powers to interfere in such a decision.

    "This court has not the power or expertise to simply examine or to determine the proper degree grade to which the claimant would have been entitled from the University of Bradford.

    "That is a decision particularly within the scope of an academic institution."

    He added: "It would not be for this court to apply its judgment as to the degree level reached and substitute that for the university's... and the defendants' application to strike out is successful."

    He ordered Mr Wogu to pay the university's legal costs, which have yet to be assessed, but are likely to run into several thousand pounds.

    EDIT
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8326475/IT-student-loses-compensation-bid-after-getting-a-22-degree.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2011
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  2. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    wa wa waaaaa! Good! If only this happened more often, we might be able to get rid of that american philosophy towards suiing anyone and everyone, rather than admitting that the fault is your own.

    Please include the source link though please - it's fairly clear that you are quoting from another site.
     
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  3. michael78

    michael78 Terabyte Poster

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    Love it always play the racist card to get attention :rolleyes:
     
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  4. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Obviousley he isn't a clever as he thinks he is. I only wish is that I could have carried on my HND to degree (couldn't due to financial reasons) I was told if I had I would have gotten a 2.1 at least due to my HND marks.

    Anyway a 2.2 isn't bad getting a job in this present climate is hard anyway. Maybe he needs to brush up on his interview technique or cv writing skills.
     
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  5. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    I was talking to an MD on Tuesday about this and she said that you need at minimum a top degree with a top marks, she then went onto say that a 2:2, 2:1 from Anywhere other than a decent Uni wouldn't cut it. Makes you wonder that if you need a 1st to even stand out and if you only have a 2:1 it better be from a top 10 Uni then what's the point.

    My question to here by the way was "So, I get bored of working in IT tomorrow, what do I need to do to come work for you". They work in Market Research (So the guys that fill the room with people and have others watching behind a two way mirror whilst interrogating you on your tooth paste). :D
     
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  6. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    Some companies are degree bias and some companies are university bias. I once had an inteview with accenture (mods edit that if I am not allowed to post the name) and I came second in the apptitude test which they were looking for 4 people and I got turned down. I was told by the PA of the guy who interviewed us all that it was most likley that it was because I didn't have a degree and that I was studying at a university that used to be a polytechnic.
     
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  7. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    B*ll, he should then broaden his views and the companies that he applies for. Plus he should have worked harder on his degree :rolleyes:

    I was on my way to get either a 2.1 or a 2.2 (it was boader line), however I finished with a unclassified BSc due to various issues. It hasn't held me back.

    -Ken
     
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  8. Apexes

    Apexes Gigabyte Poster

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    lol i read this on the register yesterday, did have a laugh at him, what a nause
     
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  9. j1mgg

    j1mgg Kilobyte Poster

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    I hope the fees run into the high thoudsands that he has to pay back and maybe he will learn that is isnt everyone elses fault it is his. I cant stand people like this that are always blaming other people for their mishaps.
     
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  10. AgentDRL

    AgentDRL Nibble Poster

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    I was 0.5 of a mark of getting a 2.1 on my degree course (BSc (Hons) Computing (Networks & Communications). Ended up with a 2.2, but hasn't done me too much harm. I remember one lad on my course said that a degree is a degree regardless if you get a 1st, 2.1, 2.2 or a 3rd. He actually got a 3rd and is doing very well for himself nowadays. I took on board his point, but I'd feel I'd be letting myself down if I did the very bare minimum to pass. Plus my folks would've kicked my a** if they ever found out I was doing that :biggrin.

    Having said that though, he seems very child-like in terms of blaming others for his shortcomings. If he had genuine proof he's been hard done by, by all means persue it. But this smacks of sour grapes because he didn't put his head down and work. And playing the race card is so weak! Only play the cards you've been dealt and nothing more - that's what I say.
     
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  11. welshwaynejack

    welshwaynejack Bit Poster

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    Sounds like someone is throwing all his toys out of the pram due to not getting his way! 5m in damages is laughable when if he wanted a realistic chance he could have possibly asked for his tuition fees back instead of a stupid money grabbing figure.

    The reality is you get what you put into life and it looks to me he didn’t work as hard and got what he deserved. Making excuses and blaming others isn’t going to get you anywhere and just looks like sour milk..I’m glad he got egg on face after taking it all the way to the High Court instead of taking it through the proper channels with the university.

    I can see his gripe with lectures and equipment but at the end of the day a degree is a piece of paper that says you can learn facts but in the real world it all boils down to how well you can actually get the job done.

    I feel strongly that the education system may need to change and being a recent student I have come across poor lectures, outdated tech and frustrating equipment but it didn’t stop me from working hard and achieving a 2.1 from a former polytechnic uni. I believe some uni courses should be improved greatly but education is only the start of the journey..the rest of that journey is up to you!.
     
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  12. lauraj65

    lauraj65 New Member

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    If you work hard enough a 2:1 isn't too difficult to achieve, this student obviously didn't work hard enough so suiing is stupid, as is the amount!
     
  13. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    It's posts like these that make me wish I understood the UK education system a bit better! :oops:
     
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  14. Apexes

    Apexes Gigabyte Poster

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    I'm from the UK - i aint got a clue either lol :blink
     
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  15. Gingerdave

    Gingerdave Megabyte Poster

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    ok long and short there are a number of traditional or Red brick (as they are reffered to) Universities, they start with Oxford and Cambridge and include others like Imperial College, London or the University of Leeds. Many of these have a tradition of excellent results and are considered the top flight universities.

    For a long time there were also Polytechnics, these tended to focus on vocational subjects more than strictly academic ones, and are not held in such regard and by some academic snobs held in disregard.

    In the 90s the rules changed as to what counted as a university and the some of polytechics gained university status. The teaching in these is often very good, but in some of the more traditional subjects maybe less then the lonf established universities.

    The degrees over here are awarded classifications of passes as opposed to the Merit/distiction system used in other places. To work out the marks required they input everyones total score, discount what doesnt reach the minimum (~40% ish) take out the top 5% or so and then work out the boundries from there. It breaks down as:

    Fail
    3rd Class Honours
    2nd Class Honors
    1st Class Honors.

    A 3rd is essentially a bare scraping pass - but a pass none the less.
    First is awarded to the top 5% or so.
    2nd class is where is gets interesting, it covers so much ground marks wise they split the classification, a 2:1 is a very respectable grade and you would have to work hard to get it. A 2:2 is known as a drinkers degree, with the implication that although some work was done the student spent more time in the pub then the library.

    I hope that explains it a bit more.
     
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  16. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    So how would you say you've got a 3rd class or 1st class degree? Do you have to spell it out? I've seen the 2:1 and 2:2 notations... but are there similar notations for 3rd and 1st?

    How do you qualify for each classification? A certain GPA? Course difficulty?

    Thanks for the clarifications... it's much easier here in the states! :biggrin
     
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  17. diesel

    diesel Bit Poster

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    As well as the snobbery of Red brick establishments trumping the old Polytechnics, there is also what are regarded as Ancient Universities being regarded as superior to the Red Brick.

    The Ancient Universities are:

    Aberdeen
    Cambridge
    Edinburgh
    Glasgow
    Oxford
    St Andrews
     
  18. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    This isnt technically right.

    Between 3rd Class Honours and fail, there is a "normal" degree. Technically there is another. I'll use a Bachelor of Science (Genetics) as an example:

    Fail
    Non-Designated Bsc (you cant state Genetics at this level)
    Bsc Genetics

    Should you study for another year, then you can add an honours to your Degree:

    Bsc Genetics (3rd Class Honours)
    Bsc Genetics (lower Second Class Honours) [2:2]
    Bsc Genetics (Upper Second Class Honours) [2:1]
    Bsc Genetics (First class Honours) [First]

    To qualify for a BSc (non-designated) you only need to accumulate so many credits, with limits on how much at each level.

    A Designated (Bsc Genetics) is the same, but the points level is higher (and more from the higher levels)

    You can only sit the Honours year if you obtain a Designated Degree, during which your exams (and dissertation) determine your grade. Should you fail honours, you still obtain a designated degree.
     
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  19. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    Ah. I see the difference. My post relates to the Scottish System. The English system doesn't seem to award "Ordinary" degrees as standard. More if they fail honours, but gain enough for a normal pass.

    Linky
     
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  20. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    If they guy is lucky, he may discover that he is the only living heir of a businessman who has died leaving $22 million (dollars) in his bank account.

    Pay his court costs off, no problem.

    :twisted:

    :biggrin
     
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