I agree and I am one of those people, I have a wife and son to consider, but that consideration does have to include the consequences of taking a position that pays too little on the off chance that if I hadn't taken that position I could have found something that paid me much better, in my case not taking the job paying £21ph paid off because I now get paid in excess of £50ph, tell me I was wrong to turn down the lower paid position!

A contractor with any common sense and/or motivation would have another gig lined up by the time their project ends. Just sayin'.

What prevents you from working a "lesser job" **while** finding the position that pays you much better?

Not to stir up a row here and make it look like I'm coming down on one 'side' - but I've been in IT for ten years or so - about half contracting, half perm - and I've got zero gaps on my CV. Not one. In that time I've had at least twenty contracting positions and four 'permanent' (har har) ones.

When I've had roles where I was responsible for hiring/firing junior team members, the one thing that put me off candidates above everything except certs with no experience is gaps on a CV. The odd month here and there - no problem. Six months? Definitely an issue.

Time to man up I'm afraid. Im not here to molly coddle you, hold your hand, or tell you "shhh, everything will be alright". I'm telling you the truth as I see it. If you dont like it, walk away or ignore my posts.

I'm not posting here (or even reading the thread) for my benefit. I already have an IT career. I already have been in the position where I couldnt get a job in IT. I already spent time on the dole.

I advise taking any damn job because any income is better than no income. Sure you can be picky for a while, but once your finances start to run low, you need an income. I advise this because its exactly what I did when I was in the same situation

I'm not giving you duff advice. You arent my competition, I have nothing to gain by giving you crap information.

I wonder myself why I bother sometimes. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of the book of a few other members and only ever post when theres some benefit in it for me.

Exactly my point. I never said you should take any job and stop looking (infact, thats exactly what I did say, although perhaps not as clearly as I'd meant to). If you want an IT job, you shouldn't stop looking when you get a non-IT job. That job is just to pay the bills and keep you afloat whilst you continue to look for the foot in (or back in) the door.

Whether you have IT experience or not. Whether you are looking for your foot in the door or not, you need to be taking any income you can once an initial period of looking has passed.

Look at it like this, from my point of view. If you arent going to take any job (within some limits, everyones entitled to them) to keep yourself afloat, subconsciously thats telling me that the moment I have a job I need you to do that you dont like, you'll refuse. Perhaps thats just me and my thought process, but what if even one other employer interviewing you thinks that? That could be the difference between the ideal entry level IT job, and another month out of work.

It seems like I can smell pride in some of the post on this thread. Well I for one cannot afford to be out of a job as I'd take any job be it cleaning, security etc.

The fact of the matter is that I'd be doing those jobs whilst studying in my spare time to keep up with new and emerging technology. These again would have to be relevant to my current skillset and the type of role I'd be suitable for etc.

My first IT role I got made redundant with almost little or no relevant experience gained. I had to pay bills, so took up a roles doing customer and manual handling jobs for five years before gaining another role in IT.

Thanks to God, have since moved on and had another role with more money. I suppose it all boils down to one's commitment financially and family commitment. I just don't see the dole as an option as for me it's a no no.


Each to their own, but would still rather be employed earning some money than otherwise. Just my honest opinion no pun intended. Cheerio

After 20 months on the receiving end of JobcentrePlus I really can't be bothered to comment

It was very depressing.

Still, enjoying the part-time teaching work I'm doing at the moment and it looks like they need me next term too

Generally speaking, I'd agree 100% with you.
I don't know about the US, but over here things are very different than the were a couple of years ago.
Did you see Mad Max?
Yup, it's just like that here at the moment.
We're attacking each other with chainsaws for a cup of petrol and the job centre has changed from being a comfy office to a metal cage with spikes in it.

I'm not fussed if I work in IT or not, whatever.
But what I would hold out on is a decent wage considering all of the effort I've put in to personal development.
I'm not greedy - I've taken a salary cut to move into a new field before, and I'll do it again.

The problem I've found at the moment is that if you apply for a job that is obviously beneath you, is that employers know you're only doing it because there isn't anything else, and as soon as there is, you'll be off.

As BM said, I'd clean a toilet or dig a ditch to feed my family, but the fact is, that there are millions of other people out there who would be happier and better qualified than me to do both. Employers know that, and given the choice between an IT professional and ex-hard labour convict when it came to recruit for the new ditch, I think I know who'd win.

By all means swallow your pride and be flexible, but be realistic at the same time.

I'm a Gen Y'er and I hire/fire as a Gen Y'er not a Gen X'er or a boomer

i dont care about gaps, i dont care about if you we re fired (fired is just them letting you go instead of leaving which is you letting them go, big whoop, so you didnt fit together, who cares, can you do the bloody job I want to pay you for?)

Do I care where you work? nope, get your job done
Do I care how many hours you work? nope, get your damn job done
Do I care how you do your job? to a point, i dont want to hear any complaints!


seriously, people who judge your CV on those merits and not your abilities are the wrong fit for you, so move on

that said, when desperate, you need to try to fit, and the majority of hiring managers are still GenX or Boomers, so you better try fit with what THEY expect!

and lets be fair, doing your job in A LOT of cases does not just mean technical ability
Can you work with my existing team? will you piss them off? are you an asshole?
Can you work with my clients? will you piss THEM off?
Do i require coverage at certain times? if i do, then flexibility drops, I cant let everyone at a Best Buy store work ROWE (Results Only Working Environment) just because corporate do, because i need coverage!

Sure, unless you have just finished a long 12 month contract where you want to take a few weeks off to spend with the family (and trust me I have done the 100 hour weeks and been on the verge of burning out). In all the time I have been contracting the last time was pretty much the longest I was out of work, yes there was the time I took a couple of months off to get my MCSE but I had the money and could afford to take the time off.

What prevents me?? pretty much my CV actually, all it takes is the hiring manager to look at the CV and simply decide that I am way over qualified for that position and I don't get a look in, and it's happened on more than one occasion.The only reason the £21ph contract offered it to me after I had interviewed with them, was that it was such a short term contract and that I was there to do a specific job rather than a role.

The gaps in my CV aren't all that bad, the 4 months I just had is easily explainable as well (recession and all that) and actually I didn't need to do that as I didn't even have an interview for my current position, I was simply hired through word of mouth.

I do agree that there comes a time when you have to do what's needed to ensure that your family is provided for, in my case it was getting rid of my car and downsizing to something else, that allowed me to bide my time until I got the right job.

Spot on, that's how I want my cv to be viewed and it's how I view others.

Repped for that Ryan.

Then you set up your next gig for after the vacation.

You're making this much more difficult than it actually is...

That's fair... but there are employers who will view that as a negative. I'd rather hire someone who doesn't have to take time off to get certified.

Come on, Simon... there are perfectly valid ways of getting into "lower" positions in order to feed the family. Or to take something completely outside of IT.

Sure, you may look overqualified... but that's not what we're discussing, here... what we're discussing is whether you would even take a "lower" job just to put food on the table or whether you would CHOOSE to stay unemployed until something better comes along.

Great. But the assertion that it's hard to go through life without gaps is bunk. It's entirely possible.

The only problem is... if even ONE employer sees gaps as a problem - and many currently do - then the gaps will lessen your chances of getting hired.

On the other hand, if there are no gaps, and you can do your job, then your OK with both batches of employers. I have yet to see an employer who views gaps in employment as a GOOD thing... but there are plenty who see it as a bad thing.

I agree that you have to do everything to ensure that your family is cared for, I already said that I had to make choices during the time I was out of work, one of those choices was to get rid of my car, it was that choice that kept the food on the table as well as the fact that my wife earns a decent wage, in my case I didn't have to take a lower paid job to ensure that everything was still ok, it was a very close thing however (I couldn't have lasted another month with no money), but because I had made provisions, being out of work for 3 months was ok, being out for more than 5 starts getting to be an issue however.

Do you know, the gaps thing really is a moot point as far as my CV is concerned because my CV reads that I have been in work since April 2006 until current working for various companies in a freelance consultancy role, which is why I never had any issues with the time off between contracts (I just thought I would look at the cv to actually see how long I have had off between my various roles and in the last 13 years the longest I have had off between contracts (excluding the last one) was 2 months).

I know at my level (2nd line) it doesn't always work that way - during the past 9months I know ex-colleagues that have failed to secure any IT contract or permanent work.

Even before this recession-thing, there were always periods that they were between contracts - not sure about Zeb et al who contract, but my colleagues weren't so fortunate.

Zeb's already mentioned that he has no gaps despite contracting.

Sorry about your colleagues... but they should have busted butt to secure another position before the drop dead date. Just my opinion.

I understand where you're coming from, the way the initial post that I answered needed, in my opinion, an answer as to why people might turn a position down based on reduced rates.

I would like to think that the people who take my opinions would also use their own common sense when it came to their own circumstances, lets be fair, if people only acted based on my opinions I would be a very wealthy and revered man now but alas the people out there don't. People need to realise and do what's best for themselves, if that's taking a job cleaning toilets or sweeping roads or even doing data entry to ensure that their lifestyle remains comfortable then who am I to take that away from them?

What I am trying to say is that every person has to do what's best for them, in my case it was waiting for a better position to come along rather than accepting a massive pay cut, others may feel that it's easier to take the first thing that comes along and move that way, for me it doesn't work like that.

My point exactly. Thanks, JK.