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ISO/IEC 20000 IT Service Management Vs ITIL

Discussion in 'Other IT certifications' started by UCHEEKYMONKEY, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    I keep hearing and seeing the word ISO/IEC 20000 banded about and from the links of UKdarkstar and Wagnerk noticed that ISO/IEC 20000 IT Service Management is the first worldwide standard specifically aimed at IT Service Management.

    If ISO/IEC20000 is worldwide and ITIL V3 isn't then why bother with ITIL V3?

    Wouldn't it be better if individuals and company's focused on one standard the ISO/IEC 20000?:blink

    How does these qualifications compare to certs such as MCSE or MCSA? Do they really help you get a foot in the door of the IT Job world?
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  2. BosonMichael
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    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    I have yet to hear about any companies over here that care a shred about ISO or ITIL standardization. If they exist, I certainly haven't heard about them.
     
    Certifications: CISSP, MCSE+I, MCSE: Security, MCSE: Messaging, MCDST, MCDBA, MCTS, OCP, CCNP, CCDP, CCNA Security, CCNA Voice, CNE, SCSA, Security+, Linux+, Server+, Network+, A+
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  3. wagnerk
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    wagnerk aka kitkatninja Moderator

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    Hi Mate,

    Yes the ISO/IEC 20000 is world-wide and ITIL is UK mainly (however it is branching out slowly world-wide). The exams/certs aren't there to compete with one another, ISO/IEC 20000 are the standards that should be attained, while ITIL is the framework that one would use to reach that standard.

    The ITIL & the ISO/IEC 20000 aren't technical certs, they are more along the lines of managerial soft skills to provide a world class service with the hard-skills gained by the MCSA/MCSE/CCNA/CCNP, etc (whether or not this is the same person, remember some IT managers do not have the MCSA/MCSE/CCNA/CCNP, etc certs, however the people that they manage may have).

    Now I haven't seen any entry level IT jobs or even IT technican jobs require the ITIL or ISO/IEC 20000 certs. However I have seen them on a few IT manager job adverts posts as a requirement (ITIL knowledge) and as a desirable (ISO/IEC 20000).

    Oh and just to throw another one in this post, there is also the MOF (Microsoft Operations Framework) cert. This is based on the ITIL framework but dealing with MS technology (technology specific).

    Hope this helps :)

    -Ken
     
    Certifications: CITP, PGCert, BSc, HNC, LCGI, PTLLS, MCT, MCITP, MCTS, MCSE, MCSA:M, MCSA, MCDST, MCP, MTA, MCAS, MOS (Master), A+, N+, S+, ACA, VCA, etc... & 2nd Degree Black Belt
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  4. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Thanks Ken:super

    I was suprised to hear about MOF(my thoughts were Oh no not another one). Then again MOF might be more interesting to learn than ITIL?

    There's a question I would like to ask and this is for anyone who has sat ITIL's.

    Q) Can a IT company enforce ITIL standards without giving their staff training in ITIL's?

    The question comes about - because this is what is happening where I work, a lot of people are unsure what the targets and correct procedures are! When someone questions these new practices they get told it's the ITIL way? But since none of the staff have been on ITIL, how on earth can be expected to understand these procedures?:blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  5. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    then those staff need to get trained. no one can expect you to do something unless you have been trained.

    ITIL is basically a set of guidelines, whether the company adopt all of the guidelines or some, its down to them
     
  6. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    Sounds complicated! :blink
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
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  7. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Cheeks - is that down to the staff or the comapny to train them?:blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
    WIP: Comptia N+
  8. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    Company.
    Whether they send them all on training course, or send a a couple, and get that couple to train the rest of the staff, its up to them.
     
  9. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    I would guess it should be down to the company
     
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  10. BrizoH

    BrizoH Byte Poster

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    If the company are implementing ITIL then they should be training staff - maybe not by sending them on expensive ITIL training courses, but at least in house training on the processes that the company is adopting (as someone said ITIL is a set of guidelines, so you can pick and choose what to implement)
     
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  11. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    Yes, I guess it is for this time of the night. Although ut could be that I haven't explained it very well (but hey what's new there!) :p:biggrin

    8 months ago we where told the Help desk software was going to be upgraded. I can't remeber the name of the software, it's something like ICQ? whereby jobs can be logged on the internet and a customer can then track and trace the job. It also gives a SLA of the job and a brief description why the SLA has not been met. We where told an IT contractor would be implementing this new software and that they will be introducing new procedure and changing some current procedures, so they will be in the ITIL framwork.

    We where then told all of us would go on an ITIL foundation course (only 2 managers went on it in the end) the rest of us got a brief decription and a handbook telling us what ITIL was!

    When learn't later that no one would be going on the course, but if we did want to, then it would be in our own time with our own money.:ohmy

    So....the position everyone is at the moment is total confusion as to what is happening and when someone asks a question why we are doing a procedure this way. We are met with " to keep within the ITIL framework!" :blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  12. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    So a company or manager doesn't have to stick to the whole framework??? They can just pick one section of ITIL??:blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  13. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    You would of thought so...but the company doesn't pay over time and now we've been told they are taking away flexi-time:cry::(
     
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  14. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    if they are willing to release you guys off your work for a 1 day to read up on the book and try and understand it, then thats fair, as long as you have someone there to help with the queries, if not, then, thats just bad.

    i know quite a few major companies that have adopted the online database, where they can track their incident to see if any progressing has been made, it has its pro's and con's. the major ones are, reduced calls to the helpdesk to find out what happening with thir incident and then the opposite, calls to the helpdesk asking why their incident has taken longer than the agreed SLA.
     
  15. BrizoH

    BrizoH Byte Poster

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    Basically yep, it's really a list of best practises - to put everything in place would probably be overkill for smaller organisations so you can choose which to go for (although this assumes the person doing the choosing knows enough about the company and ITIL :) )
     
    Certifications: CCNA, CCNA Security
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  16. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    What type of help desk software do they have at the place you work?

    Also would you say having ITIL on your CV and learning it..has been an advantage??

    Does ITIL make you more aware of what service to provide to the customer?:blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  17. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    What type of help desk software do they have at the place you work?

    • It's a common one

    Also would you say having ITIL on your CV and learning it..has been an advantage??

    • Yes, it has been an advantage to an extent, as we are not using all of ITIL within our SC.
    Does ITIL make you more aware of what service to provide to the customer?:blink

    • No, i was aware what the services i needed to provide to the customer, ITIL has helped me understand more about the contractual? agreements between ourselves and the client, different types of how we deal with disaster recovery and a few more
     
  18. Sparky
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    Sparky Zettabyte Poster Moderator

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    I see the ITIL on many job specs now so I’m interested in what it actually offers.

    Dunno, I have implemented our helpdesk system and escalation procedures and things seem to be working ok. Not looked at the ITIL yet though.
     
    Certifications: MSc MCSE MCSA:M MCSA:S MCITP:EA MCTS(x5) Security+ Network+ A+
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  19. UCHEEKYMONKEY
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    UCHEEKYMONKEY R.I.P - gone but never forgotten. Gold Member

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    When you say a common one?? do you mean chalk and slate, pen and paper, carrier pigeon or morse code... nah just joking:p..what's the software called?:blink
     
    Certifications: Comptia A+
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  20. Mr.Cheeks

    Mr.Cheeks 1st ever Gold Member! Gold Member

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    if its working fine, then leaveit, dont do it...
     

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