Is this just a scam ? Job guarantees / training

Discussion in 'Training & Development' started by Flamehearted, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    Thanks for all your adivce guys.

    I really feel this thread and this forum should be seen by as many people via google.

    There must be at least 1000s of people every day going along to these so called "interviews" and being told they need to pay £6000 . I dread to think how many people fall for it - so sad :(

    I had another "interview" with a company called ICS London who told me if I was successful (hmmmmm) I could pay them £6000 (theres that figure again - conveniently covered by the limit of a CDL) and then train with them for 3 months and then be placed in their company. Didnt seem to add up - they're taking on 24 people each paying £6000 - lot of money and how can all those people end up working for a tiny office in Croydon? :eek:

    Would it be possible to make this thread always visible ? I'd feel like I'd achieved something if it is found by even one person trying to check these "schemes" out. Believe me - its almost impossible to get a good opinion on these schemes - depsite your initial instinct of paying money to make money is bad.

    Anyway - thanks to all the honest people out there who helped ! :biggrin
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  2. Caboose

    Caboose New Member

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    I too have been along to an interview for ICS, Also expecting £6000 through a loan and also roughly a 10% deposit.

    I have been "accepted" but still unsure as to if I should go for it.
    Is the general thought that this kind of system is a total scam?

    Desperatley in need of help here, oh and by the way, to the poster that said about google.. thats where I found this post, searched for "ICS London scam" :)

    Any help would be really appreciated
     
  3. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    Hi Caboose,

    I would steer well clear of them to be honest.

    I went for an interview in the Croydon branch last week and after checking it out decided it was a scam

    1) They want all the money up front - this is a bad idea as if you have problems with the training etc what can you possibly do ? Also there is a chance they will take your money and dissappear overnight. ICS have very litte web presence. :dry

    2) They said to be there were 24 places at the Croydon branch. So they are taking £6000 from 24 people ?!??????. A lot of money. Also how can all those 24 people end up working for that branch - seems very unlikely. Seems more likely the training wont be good enough to pass you so they will turn round and say you were too crud and therefore won't be obliged to employ you.

    3) The whole "interview" thing is imo a hoax. They probably tell everyone they were "successfull" :dry

    4) Think about it - if these people were serious about training you and taking you on they would not ask for huge ammounts of money in advance like this. Also they require no references and no experience - you could in theory be Jack the Ripper and they would take you on with the promise of a job and passing these exams. :eek:

    5) It seems unlikely you will gain all those qualificaions easily in 3 months - so what happens if you fail ?......

    6) (finally !) They say the training is subsidized. This is rubbish. They are asking £6000 - exactly the same as it would cost to do these courses at any other (more reputable) training provider.

    Please please please stay clear and don't be caught !

    Hope of use,


    Flamehearted
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  4. Caboose

    Caboose New Member

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    Thanks for your swift reply, its most appreciated.

    Im glad its not just me that thought the asking for money up-front was odd.
    Another thing I noted was that in the hour and a half I was there I saw nobody other than one person at reception and the person that was interviewing me, all the other office windows were blacked out, either because (if the were legit) that they didnt want any disturbances OR that nobody actually works in those offices.

    I also recently spoke to someone who I worked with in my previous job who says he IS now working for them but he is the course teacher.. does this meant that hes been taught to re-sell this scheme to others?

    I also noticed something in the reception that probably shouldn't have been on the seat next to me, but it was someone elses CV with big red marker pen scrawls all over it and from the poor hand writing the only thing I could make out was the words "Sucessfull applicant... if he gets the money"

    Also their systems that they were using didnt appear to be networked in any manner and were probably about 2-3 years old, not saying that they sould have top of the range gear all the time but you would think that a company that says they are one of the leading companys for IT sollutions, blah blah blah, would atleast have good equipment.

    Sorry for the very long reply (probably with many spelling mistakes) but I feel that its best to discuss my problems with others who have a better idea of the situation than myself.

    Once again thanks for your reply and help. I'm meant to be calling them back this afternoon and I Think I know what I shall tell them to do with their "training course"

    :biggrin
     
  5. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    mmmmmm

    That was useful Caboose and youve got me thinking...

    What if the "job" they get you is in fact....Selling the same "package" to further vicitms ???????

    Would make sense ....sort of a chain thing..... :hhhmmm

    Anyway keep your money and be happy !

    BTW - where in the uk do you live ?
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  6. Caboose

    Caboose New Member

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    I live in the south, Portsmouth Area :)
     
  7. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    i'd disagree guys. in most cases these companies are not a scam. for most of them, they are genuine companies, and they will put you through the courses and get you through the exams. but their courses are either best suited to people who can already do the stuff, and just need the certs, or otherwise will very possibly get you to pass the exam, but you most likely wont retain much of the knowledge afterwards. furthermore, some of these companies promise a good employment within 6 months or ure money back. they place the condition that you have to work with them or it doesnt count. and they will get you a job (in most cases), but that doesnt mean u will keep the job - most likely the lack of knowledge despite the certs will get u fired soon enough - but they will have fulfilled their end of the bargain.

    its not really a scam per se!

    Fergal
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  8. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    Fergal that's complete rubbish.

    If they're taking people on knowing they are likely to be sacked asap due to lack of knowledge then in my book thats a scam.

    Stay well clear.
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  9. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    ...... and yet politicians are considered legit!
     
    Certifications: ITIL Foundation; MCTS: Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010, Administration
    WIP: None at present
  10. oceanexplorer

    oceanexplorer New Member

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    Hey guys,

    Well I'd thought I try and search for ICS london scam and up came your posting in the forum.

    Unfortunately I have been one of the suckers that has paid the £6000 hoping for decent training into the IT world. However 6 months down the line and I have only passed 2 exams. ICS London taught me for 2 weeks on an MCSD course, something I now realise is a total gross underestimate in the time it takes to teach a course like that. They taught us around 1/20th of what I needed to actually know and I am now teaching myself and passing succesfully. However this is now what I paid £6000 for. So I intend to create a serious up roar about this.

    Could you guys give any advice if it would be worth approaching Microsoft, as the certify the company? Also I am going to try and find the body that allows ICS London to be registered as learning provider.

    I am so deeply upset and annoyed, I want to make a break into the industry and feel I have been totally scammed.

    Oh and to answer your questions, they do seemingly say yes to everyone and they used a past student to teach us the course.

    Maybe citizens advice bureau maybe a good place to go to as well!

    Well cheerio from an angry sucker!
     
  11. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Hi oceanexplorer.

    I'm sorry to hear of your experience, but the only assistance we can really offer would be to suggest you take direct action with the company itself, either as you say via the CAB, or maybe also using someone like the small claims court or a solicitor.

    However, in the first instance, speak to the company. Please - do not use our site to mount your campaign from - we are here to help people improve their prospects through study for IT certs. We don't have any facilities to tackle problems with individual training providers.

    I hope you take my point on board - I also hope you get a successful resolution to this.

    Good luck, my friend. :)
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  12. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    Oh mate - I'm really sorry to hear of what's happened to you. :x

    Wish you'd found my post before you signed up - its the reason I made this thread as I wanted to give a heads up to those thinking about the whole thing.

    As far as I can see though the whole thing is legal - I'd imagine legally they have done nothing wrong. But IMO the whole thing is highly immoral and dodgy - they are, as a tech friend of mine calls them, "Legal Scams" :blink

    If you want to chat more about all this then please email me and Id be pleased to offer an ear !

    Martin
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  13. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    As I mentioned above, please keep this off the public Forums. If you Guys have information to share, please do so between yourselves, as comments about specific training providers may leave CertForums in a legally difficult position.

    Martin - I know you indicated that you'd be happy to continue this discussion in private. Thanks for that - I mean this post for others who may be wishing to pursue another "witch-hunt"

    Thanks :)
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity
  14. HoganIrish

    HoganIrish New Member

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    I would like to thank everyone who has posted to this forum!! After having a interview with ICS London today i came back very dazed and confused but after reading all the posts contained here it really spelt it out straight for me. I just feel sorry for the people who they got and will continue to get scammed by these people. I cant' believe i read an advert for these people in a national paper!! They told me it would cost the company £16000 to train me but the company was willing to pay for most of this because they believed in my protential
    . All they believe in is making money no matter what the cost. Is there anything more that can be done to prevent this from happening to other people?
     
  15. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    HoganIrish, your first post is not the best way to introduce yourself to the members of this site. Especially since the post right before yours is an admin asking for this topic to be carried on in private so it will not affect Cert Forums from operating in anyway. I think you can understand that. If you can't than you are definitely at the wrong place.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  16. Flamehearted

    Flamehearted Nibble Poster

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    And surely your reply Mitz isnt the best way to welcome him ????

    Glad the post was of use Hogan - oh and welcome to the forum - I've found it a really nice place. :D
     
    Certifications: A+
    WIP: Network +
  17. Mitzs
    Honorary Member

    Mitzs Ducktape Goddess

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    If Hogan wants warm welcomes then he needs to take himself to the intro board or any other besides this thread. An Admin has asked at least twice for the flaming to stop so CF will not get in trouble. That kind of trouble could lead to a site being shut down. While I may not have been here long I’ve come to love this site and it members. I will not sit on the sidelines while there are no admins or mods around and let a first time poster jeopardize this site because he doesn’t respect other wishes or care if we are here tomorrow. If that offends you flamehearted I’m sorry.
     
    Certifications: Microcomputers and network specialist.
    WIP: Adobe DW, PS
  18. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Yea, guys. Can we leave this?
    This site can only operate if we stick to the rules and respect the wishes of the staff. Otherwise they'll take the whole thread down and nobody will benefit from it.
    I think we've made the point here, and although your posts have been useful I think you need to continue this in private.
    Mitzs is quite right, and I think she was polite enough about it.
     
    Certifications: MCT, MCTS, i-Net+, CIW CI, Prince2, MSP, MCSD
  19. HoganIrish

    HoganIrish New Member

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    I do apologies!! I had only read to the second page of the forum. Thank you for your comment flameheart
     
  20. Jakamoko
    Honorary Member

    Jakamoko On the move again ...

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    Why not stop by the New Membes forum and say a "hello" and meet the Guys properly, Hoganirish. :)
     
    Certifications: MCP, A+, Network+
    WIP: Clarity

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