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Informing interest of quitting

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by dazza786, Oct 30, 2009.

  1. dazza786

    dazza786 Megabyte Poster

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    Wondering if anybody knows;

    If I was to tell my employer that they're taking the piss out of me and that I'm thinking of leaving and finding a job elsewhere... what can they legally do? can they force me to quit or anything?
     
    Certifications: MCP (271, 272, 270, 290, 291, 621, 681, 685), MCDST, MCTS, MCITP, MCSA, Security+, CCA(XA6.5)
  2. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Err, they might start to look for "legitimate cause" to sack you so probably not a good idea.

    Whilst most employers are cagey on giving "bad" references these days due to employment law (I'm talking UK here) just giving a "standard" reference that doesn't say much also speaks volumes to a potential new employer.

    I'd say you're better off just keeping your head down and looking for something new m8.
     
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  3. Josiahb

    Josiahb Gigabyte Poster

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    Yup, a simple phrase to follow in these situations "don't burn your bridges whilst your still standing on them"

    Update your CV and get looking, your employer will probably work it out eventually when you start taking loads of random half days for interviews!

    There are of course ways to make your displeasure known in a more subtle fashion, depending on the employer this can result in A) an improvement in your situation and B) a certain level of respect for being willing to point out the problems in the face of management blindness.
     
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  4. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Oops hit retry and it duplicated my post sorry
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  5. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    I agree with UKDS. They may make it their mission to manage you out or worse sack you meaning you won't be able to use them for a reference for your next job. "As a rule I'd play it cool" 8)

    I was told early on at IBM, you never express you are unhappy with a company while you still work there. Its not professional and you are going no where (in terms of career progression) once word gets out you are unhappy.

    The best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut, your work at its best but apply for other jobs like your life depends upon it. Even then when you hand your notice in don't be tempted to say stick your job etc. You are better than that and why burn your bridges. When I handed my notice in I thanked them for everything they had done for me but politely informed them I'd been offered more money and that I could progress into penetration testing in the new firm. They shook my hand so I can always go back there if the right job came along. Never say Never is one of my Moto's.

    Jim

    **EDIT: To answer your question can they make you quit or anything; I think its just common sense that although they can't force you out without a reason, if one of my team expressed how unhappy they were, I wouldn't want them on my team. Any redundancies or changes needed they'd be first on my list
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
    Certifications: BSc (Hons), HND IT, HND Computing, ITIL-F, MBCS CITP, MCP (270,290,291,293,294,298,299,410,411,412) MCTS (401,620,624,652) MCSA:Security, MCSE: Security, Security+, CPTS, VCP4, CCA (XenApp6.5), MCSA 2012, VCP5, VCP6-NV
  6. Phoenix
    Honorary Member

    Phoenix 53656e696f7220 4d6f64

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    I've been fortunate enough to have good relations with my managers / corporate heads in early days that I always told them if things got that bad, often they got fixed, but plenty of times things have already gone to far and there is no turning back

    So when the times came that I didn't have that sort of relationship with my boss, I still told them anyway
    I've only walked out on one job without giving notice, that DOES burn bridges, but telling them you are unhappy and seeking alternate employment does not

    that's just how it goes
     
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  7. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    I think what you need to do is put a more positive spin on it.

    Yes, by all means look for another job if what you're doing now sucks - but if you're generally happy with where you are with a couple of exceptions then try to fix them.

    Rather than telling them that they're taking the p1ss and threatening to leave hence making you stand out as a 'problem case', go to your manager and tell him you are happy working there but there are x, y, z issues which are concerning you. Tell them you'll do your bit if they can help you try to resolve them.

    If your manager isn't interested, speak to HR or someone else. Make sure you keep records of who you speak to. Print copies of emails and keep copies of letters etc and write it all in your diary.

    If they ignore you and do nothing, you're no worse off than you were before, then maybe it's not the place for you.

    If they listen to you and fix the problem, then it's happy days.

    If they brand you a 'problem case' anyway, you're no worse off than telling them to stick it. The important thing is that you will have records that you have highlighted issues which have been ignored, the chances are that they won't.

    If there is anyone at your company that knows anything about employment law, they'll know that it can be extremely risky to try and 'manage out' an employee who has evidence that he's been unfairly treated and hasn't had his case addressed. It has 'tribunal' written all over it.

    The only danger is that you can overdo it and seem like a complete t0sser, but I've seen some pretty hefty payouts from tribunals to staff that were unfairly dismissed or treated unfairly at work.

    Keeping records is important, but so is having a valid case. Everyone thinks that they don't get paid enough or get more than their fair share of the cr@ppy jobs, but would somone looking at it objectively actually agree?
     
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  8. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    Sorry, I was waffling.

    Back to the question.
    I certainly wouldn't threaten them. Apply for other jobs, if you get one hand in your notice and shake everyone by the hand when you leave.

    Legally, they can't 'force' you to quit or sack you etc without reason.
    But if they know you're planning to leave you aren't going to end up on a list of potential promotions or be handed any shiney nice projects either.

    Mind you, it depends on your place in the company.
    If you are valued and respected, a discrete mention that you are looking elsewhere might pay off.

    If however everyone hates you and you hate them back, then it won't.
     
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  9. dazza786

    dazza786 Megabyte Poster

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    Wow, lots of replies! Thanks guys :p
    Erm, to give an insight of the situation (pretty classic really, I'm sure most can relate)

    It's always been a small company, 50ish when I joined, but now it's more like 23. When I joined, I joined to do 1st line support of clients and employees, now I do everything under the sun.. There used to be 3 members in the IT team; 2 developers and me. One developer surprised everybody by handing in notice a few weeks ago and now he's gone, so I've got 50% of his work aswell. Workload is horrendous at the moment. They're claiming that they're not gonna bring anybody new in to cover his job either, or at least not until next year. When I started, in my terms of employment, it states an annual salary review. Since I have started, I've had 1 salary/role review which was 3 months in (basically confirming probation period) and consisted of a rise to the agreed salary in my interview with no mention of any further tasks or responsibilities. Last year the salary review was put off due to 'insufficient funds' and was promised one in the next year. I was told today that nobody is getting a salary review.. however.. they've decided to take off my sales-type responsibility where i'd earn comission and replace that with what they call 'guaranteed salary'. So they turned round and said, "cos we took that off, you're now down £x on your income, however we're being nice and going to give you a raise to equal your OTE! :D:D:D!"
    i was like... um.. that's not a raise.. (to be fair, the OTE was actually an accurate description of how much i'd get)

    Anyway .. i feel as though they've taken the piss for a long time, and I was giving them the benefit of the doubt in light of this years salary review and also because i wanted to spend more time on my studies but I am being paid well under my worth and I feel like telling them that, and that I am going to be searching for other opportunities. Just wanted to know if they could actually hire somebody, train them up, and when they felt comfortable with the persons competency, turn round and get rid of me. I though you had to actually do something wrong to get sacked, as opposed to them just thinking 'we're bored with you now' or something similar/what i just said?

    edit: everything under the sun includes infrastructure, firewall, switch, email\web\db\linux\ad server, infrastructure and voip\telecomms management (which i implemented), a client base of over 500k
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
    Certifications: MCP (271, 272, 270, 290, 291, 621, 681, 685), MCDST, MCTS, MCITP, MCSA, Security+, CCA(XA6.5)
  10. Arroryn
    Honorary Member

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed

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    Being managed out, they basically work you to between the metaphorical rock and a hard place. And then do you over.

    Never been managed out, but I've seen it happen, and never want to be.

    PM me if you like, but your role sounds similair (except for the user levels) to mine - what is your salary (also let me know if it's none of my beeswax). There are reasons for me asking, which I'm happy to discuss with you via PM :)
     
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  11. Geekzilla

    Geekzilla Nibble Poster

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    By the fact that I am currently being managed out of my job by my boss I can say with some level of expertise how unpleasant it is. If you are not happy and feeling underappreciated, get looking for a job before jumping.

    Defiantly don't tell them how unhappy you are, it is like a card game, don't show your hand too early.

    Best of luck mate.
     
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  12. JonnyMX

    JonnyMX Petabyte Poster

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    It's a tough one in 'the current economic climate'.

    A few years ago you could be fairly confident that you could walk out of one job and into another.
    These days you can't, and anything that pays the bills needs to be taken with a pinch of salt...

    8)
     
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  13. jk2447

    jk2447 Petabyte Poster Moderator

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    Sorry to hear that. Funny enough thats exactly how I've just described it to a friend of mine (as a card game). Hope you find something better soon, Jim
     
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  14. zebulebu

    zebulebu Terabyte Poster

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    If you want my tuppen'orth, I reckon the company you work for is looking to downskill your role, or outsource it. Don't make the mistake of thinking this can't happen - I once worked for a small company that had five field engineers and a client base of about forty across the South East - I left, and nine months later they got rid of all the field engineers (over half the staff of the company) and contracted the work out. Twelve months after that they were out of business.

    Sounds like you've got the skills and experience to make a move. Don't believe the hype about the current climate being piss-poor for all IT workers. I still get ****loads of job offers from recruiters at my level - sure getting into IT at the moment is bloody difficult - next to impossible in many cases - but if you have skills, interview well and have the experience to back those skills up, it's still a seeker's market at the moment.

    Don't burn your bridges - you still need to earn whilst you;re looking. Bite your tongue and take satisfaction in knowing they're probably going down the ****ter after you leave :biggrin
     
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  15. BosonMichael
    Highly Decorated Member Award

    BosonMichael Yottabyte Poster

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    Legally, I have no idea. In most states of the US, they could fire you for whatever reason.

    Still, the legality isn't what you should be concerned with. Whether you can lose your job or not, they can likely make things unbearable for you.

    If you're thinking of finding a job elsewhere and leaving, then find a job elsewhere and leave - don't tell them, just do it! What do you hope to gain by telling them? More money? More responsibility? More respect? Dude, if you have to ask for any of those, you're in the wrong place.

    By the way, be sure to have another job in your pocket before you give notice. You don't want to leave with just blind optimism, cause that won't pay the bills.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
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  16. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Sounds a bit like headless chicken syndrome and the co could be in a bit of trouble.

    However, it sounds also like a real opportunity for you - get that CV updated NOW, you've got lots of skill/experience areas and could be just what many other co's are looking for.

    Keep your head down, do what is asked and get out there applying and networking ASAP !
     
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  17. Manunemp

    Manunemp Bit Poster

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    I told my former boss that I was considering quitting the job but would work my 4 week notice if I did decide to leave, I took my 2 week holiday to think it over, i.e I wouldn't just walk out one day and never return. Next thing I know, when I come back, they have someone else in already to replace me :)

    I wish I would have left on the spot rather than work my 4 week notice, I hated that place and the boss.

    Why is it that when it comes to managers, they are the most evil species of the human race? I write this in reference of some comments of not to tell the boss that you are unhappy because they would sack you. Surely if they value you then they would try to sort it out, rather than act like a kid whose friend accidentally hit the tennis ball at his face and was no longer his friend.
     
  18. Geekzilla

    Geekzilla Nibble Poster

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    Cheers Jim.

    I am not working in IT atm but hope to break in. I don't mind going from one thankless job to another, just so long as I don't have a manger who says how horrible I am at my job and does not give any encouragement.

    Sounds like we are lucky in the UK though. In the main Employment Law supports the employee as much as the employer.

    Scary:eek:
     
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  19. Fergal1982

    Fergal1982 Petabyte Poster

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    I told my ex-ex-manager that I was looking for work elsewhere when I was looking to move into development. To be fair, I had been hankering for a development role in the company for months. Eventually I just plainly told them that I wanted to get into development and, since I couldnt get a position internally, I would have to start looking elsewhere. It wasnt a reflection on them per se, so different to your situation somewhat, but I just felt that it was only fair they knew. It also allowed me to be open about requesting time off for interviews.

    My manager at the time got a bit defensive when I told her, but I told her it wasnt a reflection on her (definately not, she was one of the best managers id ever had), just that I had to look out for my best interests.

    A year after leaving, I returned to the company as a Developer, and am still here.

    My point is, dont burn your bridges. Hand in your notice professionally, work your notice (or negotiate some deal with them to reduce notice with holidays, etc), and leave in a professional manner. You may or may not ever want to return to that company, but you never know when you will encounter those people elsewhere when searching for a job with other companies.
     
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  20. UKDarkstar
    Honorary Member

    UKDarkstar Terabyte Poster

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    Just remember that when you're a manager one day !


    Exactly, well said ! Repp'd
     
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