Im Stuck! UNI OR CCNP/CCIE? Any Advice

Discussion in 'Employment & Jobs' started by mentman, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. simongrahamuk
    Honorary Member

    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Can you justify this? what about things such as the quality of life? There is far more to it than simply making big money. if you earn enough to cover your outgoings and have some money to spare each month and enjoy doing it then that should be justification in itself.
     
  2. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    A cut above the rest? just like the 100s of thousands people who go to Uni every year in this country, they are all a cut above the rest, until they get out of uni at 22/23 and realise they have no experience whereas the guy that went to work at 16 is your age with 6 years experience and more certs than you can shake a finely polished stick at.

    The ultimate discussion here is about Working or going to Uni and working wins if your choosing between a job and going to uni (the college leaving age).

    So pray tell, how did your computer science degree help you in first line support?

    I mean surely, having a degree means you must be able to skip first line support? :rolleyes:
     
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  3. craigie

    craigie Terabyte Poster

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    Think you qouted the wrong bit mate :D
     
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  4. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    I never did first line support. Started as Junior Programmer, 9 months later moved jobs and title changed to Software Engineer. Not that title means anything, been doing the same stuff for 14+ years, learnt most of it at Uni, go figure.

    Good luck to em, though chances are if my degree is worthless than so are his certs.

    The experience may be of use, but since I struggled to land a junior programmer job with a degree, I doubt most people would get a look in aged 16 with no quals, so that would probably be 6 years experience on the meat counter at tescos...
     
  5. Jiser

    Jiser Kilobyte Poster

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    Lol now now everyone!!

    I think basically Uni's need a big change in how they are run + the courses they provide. To many people take the light options.

    You need people with more real world experiance designing the appropriate courses. I had a real complain to my uni. Did they reply? No..

    We had one lecturer who turned up for a disaster recovery/planning lecture. He did 20 mins and left. He showed us a picture of a mountain (his slide) that was it. He didn't have anything to teach so we ended up the students one or two talking about their experiance of DR during there year out in industry - where TBH we learn't more than we ever could at Uni.

    THough saying that our 1st/2nd years prepared us with a good knowledge of networking/hardware and how to design a database/website and link them all together.
     
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  6. Jiser

    Jiser Kilobyte Poster

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    Ditto!
     
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  7. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    I did my degree part time with the OU (BSc IT and Computing) after I got my job as a Mainframe Operator so I now have 10 years IT experience, two HND's and a BSc but to be honest with you, in my experience, I wish I'd never started my degree because all any employer want is MCSE or CCNA/CCNP etc.

    Traditional qualifications don't mean much in IT. A lad I work with is on 30k and doesn't have 1 GCSE or degree, just his MCSE.

    Although I learned a lot on my degree, I couldn't fix anything, trouble shoot anything or do anything in a real world IT environment. I'm sure someone will back me up here??? You'll learn all the theory in the world, 8 bits in a byte and tons of stuff you'll never use at work.

    I've only just started to gain my MCSE and I'm already impressed by how much of it can help you fix problems in the real world. For this reason I'd say sack the degree, UNLESS you study it part time like I did along side a career (even better if your employer pays for it like mine did!).

    No one cares if I've got a degree in my work place so it could be an isolated incident but I work for a pretty big company. Anyone have any comments? Two people I work with who have IT degree's from Liverpool Uni and John Moores Uni agree they don't know a great deal about IT.

    PS I'm not putting degree's down in general. A law degree is the defacto qualification if you want to be a solicitor or barrister etc. I just feel in IT, the Vendor qualifications (Cisco, Microsoft, CompTIA) wipe the floor with uni degree's.

    PPS My mate is a CCNP and is on 60k with no degree
     
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  8. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Funny, I find this info useful every day...(plus I learnt it in GCSE Comp Sci, not on my degree...)

    I have a mate on 100k with no degree, another on 150k with no degree. Whats your point ?

    They were lucky, not everyone who doesn't get quals will be, instead they could be plucking chickens in a factory, who knows ?

    If I had a mate who won the lottery should I advise your life plan to consist entirely of buying lottery tickets every week and being a couch potato ?

    Make sure any qualification you do is relevant to your end goal, thats basic ROI. My degree taught me stuff I use every day.

    No one ever said you needed a degree for support work, in fact I said you didn't twice !
     
  9. simongrahamuk
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    simongrahamuk Hmmmmmmm?

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    Gentlemen, we've been here before.

    A degree can open doors, so can certs. Combine the two together, add into the mix experience and you've got it all.

    As has been discussed in the past they both both approach subjects from a different perspective.

    Do what ever you feel is the best option for yourself not one which will help you to skip levels of employment and give you the biggest wage.

    Keep the thread on track and leave personal comments out of it please.

    8)
     
  10. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    Think you've took this the wrong way so my appologies for not wording it better. My point is you work to live, not live to work. So if I could start all over again, I'd pick something that earned me as much money as possible because lets face it, life is easier with money. The kid wants our advice on to go to uni or not? I work in IT and am pretty sure a manager would take a kid on with a CCNA over a degree.

    My appologies for being wrong if there are people who use octets in their roles. What is it you do if you don't mind me asking?
     
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  11. Jiser

    Jiser Kilobyte Poster

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    I wish I had chosen a different career direction at school in honesty. I don't know what but something involving moving away as far as possible from everything I know.
     
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  12. Arroryn

    Arroryn we're all dooooooomed Moderator

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    Trying studying for passion instead of career. It might open up some doors for you - what did you want to do as a youngster? IMO degrees and specialisations are foisted on people at too young an age to decide what they truly want to do.

    I am incredibly glad I didn't do the degree courses I was accepted on (I mean, for a start, I applied for different courses - clearly quite decisive!). I wouldn't have made a satisfying career out of it at all.

    Now, I'm studying for pleasure rather than... err... pain. And it ties in so well with my work, as I don't feel aggrieved at coming home and hitting the books. They're both incredibly different from each other, but they bounce off and balance each other out. It's all fun kids :)

    I think everything at every which way angle on degrees has been said that I could say, so I'm not going to repeat it all. But it was a blend between Zeb and SGUK. :)
     
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  13. dalsoth

    dalsoth Kilobyte Poster

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    Never went to uni. IT Manager now with many years experience. Never did me any harm. Someone said a degree helps them feel confident in interviews? I am very confident when i go for an interview because i will have assessed the job before hand and made sure it will be something i can actually do. A lot of squabbling going on really but simongrahamuk had the right idea when he said it really helps to have both.

    I am of the view that you need a degree less and less nowadays in IT but there are still those old boys who run the show and will not let you in to the upper levels without one.

    I will seriously be considering a degree in the not so distant future as i do not want to do this particular job all my life and want to move up the ladder at some point. While i don't think it is essential to do this it will certainly help. I have looked at the OU and at foundation degrees locally. Will probably go ahead and start one when i buy my house later this year with luck.

    If i had it all over again i would still go straight into IT and then get a degree later on. A degree will help later in your IT career depending on your particular field that is. Certs will help from the get go.:D

    There are always exceptions to every rule though.
     
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  14. dmarsh
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    dmarsh Petabyte Poster

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    Fair point, I'll get off my soapbox, just putting my case, yes you can be successful in many many ways.

    I'm a computer programmer, hard to do much in assembler or C if you don't know binary representations of stuff, even in higher level languages its useful. Try understanding output from a packet tracer without it, or output from a debugger, or dissassembler, or core dump, try checking file formats using a hex editor without it.

    Hell the first computer hobbyists in the 70's coded in machine code, thats not that long ago.

    Yes some CCNA candidates might be better than degree candidates and vice versa, it really depends doesn't it ?

    Generally most people advise do what you love, normally you will find a way to make money out of it if you are good at it.

    Otherwise we would all be lawyers or accountants and bankers, and we've seen where they've got us...

    Certs may be useful in some IT careers, they are fairly useless in others, also most of them shouldn't be undertaken without experience resulting in a catch-22 for entrants.
     
  15. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    Great point, all depends on the individual. I work for IBM and we go nuts for anyone who's just keen : )
     
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  16. mentman

    mentman Bit Poster

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    Lets Be Clear!

    I have 2 1/2 years exp so far in network/desktop support and still going.

    Honestly tho guys thanks for all the input,

    Giving me lots to think about.
     
    Certifications: CCNA, CCENT, ITE, 642-812 BCMSN
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  17. westernkings

    westernkings Gigabyte Poster

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    I hope your happy with what you caused, you nearly ripped the community in two haha, :D think next time you post lol. :twisted:
     
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  18. JK2447
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    JK2447 Petabyte Poster Administrator Premium Member

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    I agree, I'm fairly new to certforums and it seems passions run high when comparing Certs and Degree's! :duel
     
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  19. twgoldwood

    twgoldwood New Member

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    I am in a similar position to the OP. I am going to be finishing my A-levels this year and I have decided to not go to University (yet). My school offered me a job as an IT technician for the next school year and Im going to take that position and work towards the A+ certification and maybe a Microsoft one. Then I can choose if I want to go University or find a job. Im not sure if i will be employable at 19 with just a CCNA and A+ qualification.
     
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  20. greenbrucelee
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    greenbrucelee Zettabyte Poster

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    the A+ will make you more attractive to employers but having high level certs like the CCNA without on the job experience of using CISCO equipment can go against you. Some certs are designed to show your on the job experience not that you can pass an exam.

    The CCNA is a difficult exam anyway and has a high pass mark which if I remember correctly is about 85% which means you can't get many wrong, this is why experience is a good idea.
     
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